Learning chord shapes...help

[exhaust_49]

I've just started to learn basic chord shapes (D7, Am, C ect.) and was wondering if there are any tricks to help me along. I just got hit with about 10 different chord shapes and it gets very confusing. Any help would be greatly appericated.

[jas]

One thing that was a great revelation to me is that EVERY CHORD SHAPE REPEATS. All the way up and down the neck.

For example take the D7. If you move it up two frets (D, Eb, E) it becomes an E7. Move it up two more, it's an F#7 (E, F, F#).

This is true of every chord, no exception.

You will eventually have to learn to do with your fingers what the nut of the guitar is doing. In the example of the D7, the nut is playing the zeroeth fret on the lowest three strings. If you move it up two frets to play an E7, you must fret the three lowest strings at the 2nd fret. That is the true shape of a D7 - don't let the nut of the guitar (open strings) fool you.

But that's for much later. For now, take every shape you learn and run it up and down the neck.

You'll know you're really getting somewhere when you can see how a first position 'C' is the same shape as a first position 'D'.

-John

[exhaust_49]

Thanks John. I'll give that a try :D

[San]

Jas has made an excellent point there that took me years to work out, look after that little nougat it's woth more than gold!!

Jas has mentioned barre chords and these were a massive help to me, look them up but make sure you are confident with your basic open chords first.

Let us know if you need any more help or info.

Good luck, it' a great journey!

San.

[Jo]

I won't drop the dreaded "P" word here (practice) ...oops guess I just did. ;)
But, take your chords 2 or 3 at a time and sling them in to some form of a song you can just jam to.

My first 2 chords I learned were E and A and I spent the whole Saturday afternoon changing from one to the other till I had a cool rhythm groove going. Jung jugga jung, jugga jung, jugga jung etc. I spent all day just changing between those 2 chords until I could do it without thinking about finger placement. :D


One of the interesting things about learning chords is that it's pure muscle memory. Even today 25+ years later when I'm learning a new chord (esp. a funky finger twisting jazz chord) it takes a while before I can easily change to it. But the cool thing is one day you have problems getting it. You come back to it the next day and voila... all of a sudden you can get your fingers into the right shape as if you've been doing it all your life.

Get a drum machine and lay down a simple 4/4 beat and just have fun with it. You'll find that you're creating your own songs without even realising it.

Take your time and just have fun and don't be scared of the F or B barred chords.

[Brian D]

Another thing to mention is that it is perfectly acceptable, and sometimes even preferable, to use only 2 - 4 strings from each chord form when playing instead of the full bar chord. (Although technically two strings wouldn't be an actual chord) Sometimes the chord just sits better in the band mix, so to speak.

Not like I use this for an excuse because I can't play bar chords well or anything...

:o

[jas]

Good point, Brian.

I don't know whether this is good advice or terrible advice - I often fret two strings with one fingertip and I use my thumb instead of barring a chord quite often. My point is that there's more than one way to skin cat gut and more than one way to play a chord. If it hurts or if your hand won't cooperate, figure out another way to play it.

Ok, since you've memorized those 10 chords, exhaust, here's today's lesson. But first, I think learning chords is THE way to learn to play guitar. In my experience, people who learn chords, then notes do better than the reverse. This doesn't hold for trained musicians, just guitarists ;). We have too many lead guitar heros...let's breed some rhythm guitarists.

Ok. Here's a cool chord trick. Consider the A minor. Now look at the A major. Only one string is different. The difference between a minor chord and its major chord is only one string, one fret. Same with the E and E minor, G and G minor. It's true of all of them. Sometimes you will be using a chord shape where this relationship is not obvious but IT'S THERE.

So, as you learn a new major chord, try to find that one note that would turn it into a minor. Same with a minor; turn it into a major. You do this, you've learned 12 or 24 new chords.

For a 'C' chord for example, because of open strings, its minor is not obvious (but it's there). You may have to learn a 2nd way to play a 'C' chord (like an 'A' shape but up three frets...A, Bb, B, C). Then the minor becomes obvious.

-John

[Jo]

For a 'C' chord for example, because of open strings, its minor is not obvious (but it's there). You may have to learn a 2nd way to play a 'C' chord (like an 'A' shape but up three frets...A, Bb, B, C). Then the minor becomes obvious.

-JohnAnd there you have the CAGED system.. something I learned for myself but never knew that was the 'technical' name for it.

[jas]

And there you have the CAGED system.. something I learned for myself but never knew that was the 'technical' name for it.
I think you're going to have to explain that to those of us who don't speak Trinidadian.

-John

[Jo]

Oh sorry..... Jas you know it... just didn't know it's name.... like me.

You take the basic shape of the C, A, G, E and D chords, and then you can move that shape all over the neck.. just as you alluded to in your first post. Like you, and many other self taught guitarist, you learn this little gem after you've been playing a while, and even sooner if someone teaches it to you.

ie, take the E chord... move that shape up one fret (using your index finger as the 'nut', 'zeroeth fret') and then you get an F, two more frets up G etc. ... then of course the same applies for the minor, 7th, m7th and all the other chords.

As soon as I learned that I could take the E shape (or Em) and move it up anywhere on the fretboard, my whole world opened. I was able to start figuring out how to play songs by just finding the bass note on the low E string and playing the major or minor chord that it needed to sound right.

[jas]

Right. The guitar is wholly logical - not that knowing that does me a whole lotta good.

But in standard tuning, the B string screws everything up. That's one thing that's cool about a mando - you don't have any mental compensating to do.

Jo - in "CAGED", isn't the 'D' a repetition of the 'C'...same shape, first position? Tell Tyrone I demand an explanation.

-John

[Jo]

Jo - in "CAGED", isn't the 'D' a repetition of the 'C'...same shape, first position? Tell Tyrone I demand an explanation.

-JohnI agree I always thought that the D was a repetition of a C, but it's not. Apparently the difference is all down in voicings.

The open C chord is CEGC which is root, 3, 5 octave
The open D chord is DADF# which is root, 5, octave, 3

*shrug* ... it's a bit 6 of one half a dozen of the other, but there's a difference.

[jas]

I agree I always thought that the D was a repetition of a C, but it's not. Apparently the difference is all down in voicings.

The open C chord is CEGC which is root, 3, 5 octave
The open D chord is DADF# which is root, 5, octave, 3

*shrug* ... it's a bit 6 of one half a dozen of the other, but there's a difference. That's because you've chosen a different voicing for the 'D'.

The 'D' chord I'm talking about, which I consider the first position 'D' (maybe I'm wrong about the 'first position' part???) is as follows:

E A D G B E

1
2 X X (barre)
3 X
4 X
5 (x) X

which looks exactly like a 'C' but moved down two frets. But I'm playing an F# on the 'D' string whereas you're leaving it open. Different voicing.

-John

Edit: Whoops. That was worthless...BaM took out all the spaces I carefully inserted in my chord chart. Make the shape of a 'C' but down two frets.

[Jo]

When I asked Tryone about that, he said you're just playing a C chord 2 frets up, which is interesting as that is what you said too.

A D chord which is played x54232 is different to a D which is played xx0323 which places the root on the 5th fret of the A string rather than on the open D string.

Now don't argue with me, I am right even if I have no idea what I'm talking about. :D

[jas]

When I asked Tryone about that, he said you're just playing a C chord 2 frets up, which is interesting as that is what you said too.

A D chord which is played x54232 is different to a D which is played xx0323 which places the root on the 5th fret of the A string rather than on the open D string.

Now don't argue with me, I am right even if I have no idea what I'm talking about. :D
Tell Tyrone I said he should get a haircut. You should too.

I don't know what I'm talking about either but I'm older than you, have been playing longer and so you should now apologize to me - in public.

Exhaust, playing guitar is not nearly as difficult as arguing with a woman. Don't let it intimidate you.

-John

[Dan Desy]

That's because you've chosen a different voicing for the 'D'.

The 'D' chord I'm talking about, which I consider the first position 'D' (maybe I'm wrong about the 'first position' part???) is as follows:

E A D G B E

1
2 X X (barre)
3 X
4 X
5 (x) X

which looks exactly like a 'C' but moved down two frets. But I'm playing an F# on the 'D' string whereas you're leaving it open. Different voicing.

-John

Edit: Whoops. That was worthless...BaM took out all the spaces I carefully inserted in my chord chart. Make the shape of a 'C' but down two frets.I know your brain is a scary place, but that's two frets up tp me...

[Jo]

I know your brain is a scary place, but that's two frets up tp me...Yes, my brain may be scary, but not in this case. I was quoting Jas... so he's the scary brainer and also liable to get easily confused. :)

[jas]

Yes, my brain may be scary, but not in this case. I was quoting Jas... so he's the scary brainer and also liable to get easily confused. :)
Up toward the nut, down toward the bridge? You got problems with that?

I've also never figured out which is the 1st string and which is the 6th. You may have noticed that I refer to them as "skinny E" and "fat E".

Finally, I can never remember whether it's "spring forward, fall back" or the opposite.

You people are mercilessly and helplessly confusing Exhaust. I was being very helpful to him (in my opinion) until you all started butting in. Exhaust: lead guitarists...don't listen to them. They are simply not as smart as rhythm guitarists and rarely know what's going on in the song they're scribbling on top of. You can take my word for it.

-John

[Dan Desy]

Yes, my brain may be scary, but not in this case. I was quoting Jas... so he's the scary brainer and also liable to get easily confused. :)
Uh, wake up, girlfriend, I was also quoting jas. And talking to him. Directly. Not you...

[Dan Desy]

Up toward the nut, down toward the bridge? You got problems with that?

I've also never figured out which is the 1st string and which is the 6th. You may have noticed that I refer to them as "skinny E" and "fat E".

Finally, I can never remember whether it's "spring forward, fall back" or the opposite.

You people are mercilessly and helplessly confusing Exhaust. I was being very helpful to him (in my opinion) until you all started butting in. Exhaust: lead guitarists...don't listen to them. They are simply not as smart as rhythm guitarists and rarely know what's going on in the song they're scribbling on top of. You can take my word for it.

-John
To me, up and down on a guitar is relative to pitch, not actual height. But since the neck should be horizontal (or almost), up and down doesn't really make sense. You'll also notice that in some of your posts on the first page, you actually used the terms up and down properly.

And lead guitarist, rhythm guitarist, no matter. I'm not really a guitarist, therefore I'm right!

[jas]

You'll also notice that in some of your posts on the first page, you actually used the terms up and down properly.



Don't use that tired old gambit of using my written words against me. Maybe somebody stole my identity and is trying to sully my image around here. Ever think of that? Huh, Dan?

Since I spend much of my guitaring time lying on the floor on my back, "up" accurately describes the direction my hand must travel to hit any of those annoying lower notes. I just skip them if they're too far.

-John

[Jo]

Uh, wake up, girlfriend, I was also quoting jas. And talking to him. Directly. Not you...Doh again... sorry I'm a bit out of it today!

<runs away crying>
:D

[Dan Desy]

Doh again... sorry I'm a bit out of it today!

<runs away crying>
:D
Oh come on now, stop Aldwynizing. You know we love you.

[Jo]

Oh come on now, stop Aldwynizing. You know we love you.<runs.... stops running ..... cries..... runs away crying>

[Dan Desy]

<runs.... stops running ..... cries..... runs away crying>Like trying to teach an old dog a new trick...

[darial]

Right. The guitar is wholly logical - not that knowing that does me a whole lotta good.

But in standard tuning, the B string screws everything up. That's one thing that's cool about a mando - you don't have any mental compensating to do.

Jo - in "CAGED", isn't the 'D' a repetition of the 'C'...same shape, first position? Tell Tyrone I demand an explanation.

-John
The D isn't a repetition of the C - they're adjacent patterns, but the have the root on different strngs. I the C pattern it's on the A string, and in the D pattern it's on the D string.

[FrankiePRS]

John, I think you should use a system more appropriate to your advanced chronological state. Just forget about the C and play AGED.

[jas]

John, I think you should use a system more appropriate to your advanced chronological state. Just forget about the C and play AGED.
That's only four strings...I assume you're talking about a ukelele.

Tiny Tim is dead - that leaves a gaping hole in the market for grizzled, old, perverted ukelele players. I hereby challenge you, Frankie, to a shredding contest in the solo of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips". You may play a snot-encrusted old, white PRS and I will play a nylon-string ukelele. I happen to know that Ovation makes one. I'm ready.

Do you think you could get some twins to be the judges? Deaf twins?

-John