Computer recording

[SteveK]

Thinking about doing some personal recording with my computer. I would like to be able to record my guitar and amp, but I'm thinking I could record the bass and keyboard direct and use some type of drum program. What interface would I need to get the sounds into the computer? What kind of mixing program would do the trick? What would be a good drum program to use? I've heard the names Cubase and Sonic tossed around but I really could use some advice on what my shopping list should look like....

[jas]

Steve:

If you want to record several things at once - for example your guitar straight in plus the mic'd amp. Or perhaps guitar plus vocals at the same time. Or the whole band...

Then you need a multi-input interface. I have a MOTU 828 mkii and I record my whole band live with it. It has 10 inputs so I can send the guitar, the bass, piano, drums (5 mics into a mixer, then 2 out into the MOTU) and several vocal mics all in at once.

Then on the software end, I use Sonar 3.something Producer Edition although that's overkill for me. In software, I set up one track for each input - it couldn't be easier.

Incidentally, some people here don't like the MOTU and I've read that it doesn't behave on pre-Windows XP machines. But mine works fine. The point is you'll want an interface with several inputs for simultaneous recording. Then there's lots of software that does what Sonar does too.

I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies nor about drum programs.

-John

[LeifK]

My set up is a little scaled down...

I run Cakewalk Sonar 2.1 and use REASON for all my drums and synth stuff. Reason also has many bass and string samples as well

I have an audiophile 2496 soundcard and just run a small mixer into it.

[jas]

Right, I should've clarified:

If you want to record several things at once AND you want the ability to go back later and address each instrument (input, track) individually, then you need multiple inputs.

If it's ok to smush everything together into one track, you can get by with a one-input card like what's probably in your computer already.

-John

[SteveK]

This is basically for me to record all the parts myself, and to then have Joy add vocals. I talked to a guy yesterday and he suggested Cubase 4 which is the software and interface package, and to use Frooty Loops for drum tracks. Any thoughts?

[johnnyguitar]

Steve..I've got Pro Tools LE on an old compaq running Windows 98SE..you can pick up used LEs really cheap.and you can download different versions from the ProTools web site..you get a box with 8 inputs and two pretty decent mic preamps you can record up to 8 tracks at once.the demos I gave you and Joy were recorded on LE..it's really simple to use and cheap..just my 2 cents

[SteveK]

Thanks for the replies guys! :) I ended up going with a dedicated music PC, Cubase System 4, a decent set of powered monitors, 17 inch sony flat screen monitor, a nice AKG condenser mike, and Steinberg's Groove Agent for drum tracks. I definitely have recording GAS now...G-d help me! ;) Am looking into adding a Mackie board pretty soon....

[Mike Cantrell]

I'm interested in exploring recording too... my bandmate and I are largely working alone, I mean... he and I get together quite often but the bass player and drummer show up infrequently.

We've been thinking of trying to lay down bass and drums ourselves, then go back over that with rythm/lead/vocals (maybe vocals on both takes...).

Any good primers out there? And do most of you have dedicate PC's in your practice areas for this sort of thing?

Thanks! - Mike

[jas]

I'm interested in exploring recording too... my bandmate and I are largely working alone, I mean... he and I get together quite often but the bass player and drummer show up infrequently.

We've been thinking of trying to lay down bass and drums ourselves, then go back over that with rythm/lead/vocals (maybe vocals on both takes...).

Any good primers out there? And do most of you have dedicate PC's in your practice areas for this sort of thing?

Thanks! - Mike
I don't know of any primers, Mike, but while I do computer recording, I don't dedicate a computer to it - the computer can do the job of recording and still happily perform other tasks. You'll want lots of hard drive space and the faster the computer, the better.

If you've ever recorded yourself on a machine, using a computer is much easier in my opinion - better in every way, in fact. I don't think you'll need a primer with your BaM buddies on 24-hour call for tech support.

-John

[Mike Cantrell]

I have two PC's at home. One in my office (mine) and one in a spare bedroom (my wife's). Neither are downstairs where the jam space is, and neither is a laptop so it's not like either is easily portable.

:confused:

[SteveK]

Mike,

There are a number of books and magazines about computer recording. "Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies" is a great place to start, Music Tech, Music Technology, and Home Recording are all good magazines. And once you decide on which program to run there will be books available to address that specific programs strengths and weaknesses. My computer is dedicated to recording. It was specifically built for the task with an ultraquiet fan etc. I am not linking it to the net to keep it from any kind of file corruption/virus. I also bought a Tascam 1884 control surface/soundcard, this way I can record 8 XLR or 1/4 inputs at once. We use 5 mikes on the drums, the bass player goes direct, I go in direct through a Pod XT Live, and Joy can do a scratch vocal. As long as the drums are good , we can redo or punchin the bass if need be, and I rerecord the guitars through my amp. Joy and Brad can then do "keeper" vocal tracks, and I can add in keyboards if needed. I find this to be MUCH easier to work with than the little screens and controls on the stand alone hard disk recorders. Just my .02

GOOD LUCK! :)

[jas]

My computer is dedicated to recording. It was specifically built for the task with an ultraquiet fan etc. I am not linking it to the net to keep it from any kind of file corruption/virus.
This is how I started too. A virgin computer for recording.

Then I decided I wanted to play flight simulator on the computer so I installed that. Then I added a printer. Then I added this, then I added that.

Then I connected it to the internet.

Now it's as messy as anybody's computer but I still do recording on it. I believe that's known as "entropy".

-John

[SteveK]

This is how I started too. A virgin computer for recording.

Then I decided I wanted to play flight simulator on the computer so I installed that. Then I added a printer. Then I added this, then I added that.

Then I connected it to the internet.

Now it's as messy as anybody's computer but I still do recording on it. I believe that's known as "entropy".

-John
:D That's what the two laptops and the desktop in our computer room are for...

[A440]

Steve, how's the recording going? I'm thinking of upgrading my soundcard on my existing pc and maybe picking up a firewire drive since running out of space on my hard drive.

[SteveK]

Mike,

It's going real well. This setup sounds great, and now that I've got a better handle on the software it's almost too easy ;) . If you're close enough to stop by you're welcome to see/hear it...

[A440]

Mike,

It's going real well. This setup sounds great, and now that I've got a better handle on the software it's almost too easy ;) . If you're close enough to stop by you're welcome to see/hear it...
Steve, glad to hear it's working out for you! Thanks for the offer. I'm located in the south right now, but have plans to locate to central jersey area in the very near future:)

I attended your last tonefest and had a great time! me, you and Chi should get together sometime !

[gerry]

Thanks for the replies guys! :) I ended up going with a dedicated music PC, Cubase System 4, a decent set of powered monitors, 17 inch sony flat screen monitor, a nice AKG condenser mike, and Steinberg's Groove Agent for drum tracks. I definitely have recording GAS now...G-d help me! ;) Am looking into adding a Mackie board pretty soon....
Hi Steve - sweetwater is recommending digi002r with PT LE, into one of their special built PCs - do you prefer/did some research that made you chose the Tascam 1884/cubase/etc instead? thanks

[SteveK]

Just reading a few of the magazines, and going on a few recording forums...

[gerry]

And you're pretty happy with that set-up tone-wise?

How about the learning curve - I don't mind 5 or 10 minute detours with the beloved windows illegal operation/ can't open file etc, but I want to avoid the one's that take days/phone support etc!! TIA.

[SteveK]

Tone wise I love it. The learning curve is strewn with rocks for me at least. Just when I get comfortable, something else comes up. Today after installing SX3 on my machine and converting some SL2 files to SX3 files, the program is not recognizing commands from the Tascam. The main fader works, and the inputs on the board are going into Cubase, but the recording controls and individual faders on the Tascam are not working. I'm sure that it's a stupid bonehead mistake of mine, but as a relative newbie, it SUCKS that there is no customer support on weekends...but, I don't regret the choices a bit, just need to get more familiar with the technology.

[MickYoumans]

I also bought a Tascam 1884 control surface/soundcard, this way I can record 8 XLR or 1/4 inputs at once.Steve, it's good to hear you've got your new recording setup going. I used a Tascam 1884 to record the drums on some of the tracks of my Guitaria CD. I wish we had been able to do the drums for all of the songs with it. It was purchased about half way through my project. I think it is an awesome DAW. I would highly recommend it to anybody. Plus it is a great value for all the features it has versus what it cost. You are just getting started with it now but after you've had time to really learn what all it is capable of doing it will really blow you away. Frank, my drummer, just sprang for the add-on module to go with ours. Good luck with your recording project! :)

[gerry]

Bummer.....but remember, "What does not destroy you, makes you stronger."

(must have 70s prog rock playing in the background for the full effect....)

[SteveK]

All is good today! It was definitely a bonehead move on my part that I've since rectified. This is definitely a learning situation for me, but at one point so was learning how to set up my own guitar ;) I really like the way this setup works and the sound I can get from it!:D

[irwcustom]

I'm too thinking of venturing into the world o PC recording. I've got a Roland 880 VS - pre XLR inputs. The captured sound sounds ok, but on the whole, when you master onto a CD ..it just looses something. I think it's 18 bit - not 24.


It's encouraging what Jas says about running this and that on his and still getting good results and you've obviously wrestled with standalone recorders before.

JR played me some stuff - the quality was excellent - sound from the pc was the same to my ears as a mastered CD was. He's on cakewalk and the line 6 interface (can't remember the exact name). I want XLR definately and 4 inputs would be good. Good point about the cooling fan - especially if your recording acoustic gtr. Athlons run hot and the fans can be a bit noisy. What's the average budget for a reasonable set up?

i shyed away last time because of being told about some compatibility problems with soft and hardware. That was a fe years ago though. JR's set up seemed a good answer, but I would like a multiple input interface. Best drum prog?:confused:

[johnreardon]

...

It's encouraging what Jas says about running this and that on his and still getting good results and you've obviously wrestled with standalone recorders before.

JR played me some stuff - the quality was excellent - sound from the pc was the same to my ears as a mastered CD was. He's on cakewalk and the line 6 interface (can't remember the exact name). I want XLR definately and 4 inputs would be good. Good point about the cooling fan - especially if your recording acoustic gtr. Athlons run hot and the fans can be a bit noisy. What's the average budget for a reasonable set up?

i shyed away last time because of being told about some compatibility problems with soft and hardware. That was a fe years ago though. JR's set up seemed a good answer, but I would like a multiple input interface. Best drum prog?:confused:
Darren, my Line6 interface is the Guitar Port. Great, if you just want to record electric guitars. If you need vocals and other stuff, then perhaps something like the MBox thing, from Digidesign would be better

http://www.digidesign.com/products/mbox/

[irwcustom]

Cheers John, MBox seems to include the pr tools LE software - unless I'm mistaken. I do have a really good mic and really good valve voice processor so hopefully you can bypass that somehow. I'd imagine that it's biased to being used with a guitar alone though I'm sure you can use it for vocals too. I guess that the name 'Guitar port' gives it away though!! :o ... Forgot that's what it was called.

I really want XLR and would use a combination of DI for bass, modelling effects and hopefully good ole fashioned micing up wherever possible.

Wonder if the MBox might be the best option though considering you get the software - seems all ready to rock and roll with no compatability worries and lots of nice plug ins so it seems - Jo meek etc.

[jas]

Darren...

Your head will explode when you hear how great your "really good mic" sounds when you play or sing something into it through your computer.

That said, the CD format is 16-bit so you WILL lose fidelity when you create a CD. You will also lose quite a bit if you compress your music into an mp3. That's the rules; I didn't write them.

So I compensate by playing extra-special super great when recording - knowing that most of the brilliance will be lost in the mixdown. :eek:

-John

[irwcustom]

I hope your right John ..it is 18 bit on the Roland. I didn't know about 16 bit on the CD format, but I obviously couldn't tell the difference between playing straight back through J's pc and his mastered CD.

this game isn't as simple as looking at one model ..then going up a step you get... etc etc. I can remember paying a small fortune for the external CD burner which writes at an incredible 2x (though speed doesn't matter) Roland kind of made it so you couldn't at the time get an off the shelf substitute.
I liked your mando playing btw!:dude:

It seems that the MBox can be bought as MBox or MBox factory ..more software and plug ins. I still don't know about a drum program though?

[johnreardon]

Cheers John, MBox seems to include the pr tools LE software - unless I'm mistaken. I do have a really good mic and really good valve voice processor so hopefully you can bypass that somehow. I'd imagine that it's biased to being used with a guitar alone though I'm sure you can use it for vocals too. I guess that the name 'Guitar port' gives it away though!! :o ... Forgot that's what it was called.

I really want XLR and would use a combination of DI for bass, modelling effects and hopefully good ole fashioned micing up wherever possible.

Wonder if the MBox might be the best option though considering you get the software - seems all ready to rock and roll with no compatability worries and lots of nice plug ins so it seems - Jo meek etc.
darren, check with the Mbox. I think they have two versions. When I bought the Guitar Port, I asked about the MBox, and they definitely had two versions in stock, one with the Pro Tools software, the othet cheaper on didn't