Les Paul tone - whoa!

[Dan Desy]

As many of you know, I recently got a 1991 Les Paul Studio. As you'll see on an upcoming thread this week, I frankenstein'ed it a bit. Among other things, I rewired it for a single volume/tone. I kept the stock pickups (some Gibson 4xx's). As far as I know, this has no actual impact on tone.

In any case, I took the LP to its first band rehearsal on Sunday night. I also had my trusty-if-recently-acquired SingleCut Trem along, which I used for most of the evening. I am pretty satisfied with the tone of it.

Long story short, when I finally got around to plugging in the Les Paul, all I could say was "Whoa!". The sound was so punchy and it had a huge bottom end that just rocked so hard! And this is coming from a long time Les Paul basher. This guitar was supposed to be a utility kind-of-thing, but man-oh-man, it just kicks serious @$$!

Now, I don't know about the SC Trem anymore. I mean, I love that guitar, and it has the Trem. But how can I get it to kick like the LP? how much of that is due to the pickups vs wood vs body/neck vs mojo? One thing I still have to verify, is that the pickups on the LP might be closer to the strings than the SC Trem. Would raising the pickups make the SC Trem punchier, or just louder?

Please help me make my SC Trem sound this good.

[Erik]

Dan,
I was wondering when you'd comment on the new creation. :D Interestingly enough...something very similar happened to me last week in practice too. My Singlecut is easier to play in the upper fret regions, and I love the added string resistance of a 25" scale. However, when I plugged in my new LP my bass player and the other guitar player had this look ---> :eek: on their face. The tone was just HUGE and now I'm looking for ways to get that same big sound from the SC. I don't want the SC to imitate the Lester...that is impossible and visa-versa, but the way that Lester cut through the mix was scary. Dan, it was so scary that last night I took the 59/C-5 combo out of my LP and put the Burstbucker pros back in it. Hopefully that will tame some of the fire coming out the lester until I can get some more fire in the SC...reverse engineering if you will.

Erik H

[Taller]

The stock answer - Les Pauls are Les Pauls and PRSs are PRSs. One can't be the other, as you no doubt know.

On paper, I'd expect the SC Trem to be a bit more airy and not as chunky simply because there is a nice hunk of wood missing to install the trem.

Scale length also plays a big part in the Les Paul's tone.

I'm not sure what pickups you have in the Lester, but I believe the 400 series p'ups are a bit hotter than most humbuckers.

Adjusting the SC's p'up height won't make it sound like the Les Paul, but I'd definately encourage you to play around as this is the cheapest and easiest mod one can do to their guitar.

If you've got time on a weekend, you might want to pull one of the Lester's p'ups out and drop it in the SC just to see what that does. The only cost here is time. You might not like the result, but I think a p'up swap is about all you can hope for in getting the SC to sound a bit differently.

Nossir - PRSs ain't Les Pauls and Les Pauls ain't PRSs.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.
:cool:

[bryanrheem]

If you really dig the LP, then play it! Why try to make the SC Trem something it's not meant to be.

[Dan Desy]

Thanks guys. And Erik, it's nice to know I'm not alone :) And I want desperately to keep playing my PRSi. Next weekend, I'll probably bring the Custom 24 instead of the SC Trem to see if there's a difference in punchiness.

Donnie, don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to make the SC Trem sound like a Les Paul. No siree! All I want is more punch the PRS' sound. I want it to sound different from the LP, but also to kick me in the face kind of like the LP did.

Keep the comments/suggestions coming.

[Erik]

Thanks guys. And Erik, it's nice to know I'm not alone :) And I want desperately to keep playing my PRSi. Next weekend, I'll probably bring the Custom 24 instead of the SC Trem to see if there's a difference in punchiness...
Careful...I'm thinking that might have even less punchiness than the SC trem. (I have to admit that I've never played a SC trem...so I'm just speculating.) My CU24 has less punch than my SC, which has less punch than my LP. Again, I can't comment on the SC trem, but the neck pickup on my SC is my favorite tone for soloing. (That's why I know there will ALWAYS be a place for my SC along side of my LP)

Erik H

[Quinny]

Dan, I'd be interested to hear how you think the Cu24 and SCtrem pair up. Be sure to fill us in! :)

Cheers, Quinny.

[Dan Desy]

Dan, I'd be interested to hear how you think the Cu24 and SCtrem pair up. Be sure to fill us in! :)

Cheers, Quinny.
That one I can answer; it's the match-up with the LP that's puzzling me...

I think the SCTrem is clearer, brighter than the Custom. Also, the split sounds of the #6 pickups are the best split coil sounds I ever heard from humbuckers. The neck pickup on the SC Trem, although pretty clear, also has a nice fat-ness to it, which I (used to, at least) think is a little LP-like. In any case, the neck #6 is way better than the VB in my opinion. I think the VB is just another bridge pickup, stuck in a different position...

Erik, what I'm hoping/thinking/wondering is that the Custom, although darker than the SC, has more bottom-end punch. Not as much as the LP, of course, but I'm still curious to hear how it compares. I'm not looking for the same fat-ness as the LP, just the kick.

Let me also state that all those guitars have their own character and I love them all. I just want more of that chug-a-chug out of all of them.

[Rog]

As a man of LP and SC persuasions I find the "7"s can never sound truly huge. McCarty pickups would make the SC big and fat put I'm not sure about cutting through.

[vangit]

One thing I still have to verify, is that the pickups on the LP might be closer to the strings than the SC Trem. .
Dan, have you measured the distance between the strings/pickups on the Lester and the SC trem with a ruler and compared? Just curious?

Also, are you useing the same string guage on both? I briefly had a Les Paul studio plus. It had 9-46's and the strings sat real close to the pick ups. When palm muting, the 46 was much punchier than a 42.

[Dan Desy]

Dan, have you measured the distance between the strings/pickups on the Lester and the SC trem with a ruler and compared? Just curious?

Also, are you useing the same string guage on both? I briefly had a Les Paul studio plus. It had 9-46's and the strings sat real close to the pick ups. When palm muting, the 46 was much punchier than a 42.I haven't measured the distance between the strings and the pickups yet - that's what I want to do.

also, interetsingly, I am using 9-42's on the SC Trem, 9-46 on the Custom and 10-52 (whatever the SBHT Slinkys are) on the LP. But frankly, although it probably make some difference, I don't think it accounts for what I'm hearing!

[Big Mike]

If I can toss my 2 cents in here. I also own a 91 LP studio like Dans,

The ebony board, and thicker peice of Mahog can be part of it, as well as string guage, Lesters are notoriously sensitive in that respect. The pups will be hotter IMO than the stock PRS pups. But another issue would be that when you route for a trem, you lose some of the inhernet tone. I don;t know exactly, but it seems to me like the low mids get cut a bit. It can really change it, so It would be interesting to see if a Single cut ( no trem) and a lester with the same pups would have the same issue.

Also, the SC trem is a new peice of wood. an almost 15 year old paul, will have seasoned, and with playing will certainly effect the tone as well.

Also the stock LP pups are pretty crunchy. I believe a ceramic bridge magnent. I never really liked them all that much myself, but they were great at the chugga chugga tone through my Marshall.

A hotter bridge pup ( HFS Maybe? or a Duncan Custom) might solve it in the Singlecut.

[devine10]

You know now im dying to pick up my LP that I have on hold..

http://www.chrisguitars.com/gib02lpstudio-gr.jpg

[Michael Nolan]

Dan - are you open to a pickup swap?

After I got my Les Paul, I realized how much I really hated the Dragon II's in my CU22.

I switched them out for Seymour Duncan Jazz (neck) and JB (bridge). This made all the difference in the wolrd in that guitar! It was like there had been a sock over my tone. It was't any brighter treble-wise, but the notes just seem to punch like they were trying as hard as they could to escape my guitar and amp.

[Craig Walker]

Lester's rock !! :dude:

[benb]

Dan,
I'm sure you can sympathize with this...When Alex Lifeson pulled out the lester on the last tour, his tone was freaking HUGE. My jaw hit the floor. Anyhow...

Just some food for thought, how about amp tweaking?

[Reza]

You'd be surprised how string guage changes the tone of a guitar.
I'd try pup height and put some 10s on that SC!
Although IMHO a McCarty sounds more like a LP than a singlecut and I have no idea why this is the case.

[Dan Desy]

Dan,
I'm sure you can sympathize with this...When Alex Lifeson pulled out the lester on the last tour, his tone was freaking HUGE. My jaw hit the floor. Anyhow...

Just some food for thought, how about amp tweaking?I thought my amp was freakin' tweaked until I plugged in that Les Paul...
And you're right, the tone on Earthshine was pretty huge! :dude:

[Dan Desy]

You'd be surprised how string guage changes the tone of a guitar.
I'd try pup height and put some 10s on that SC!
Although IMHO a McCarty sounds more like a LP than a singlecut and I have no idea why this is the case.
The McCarty does sound closer to a LP, but without the punch that's for sure.
Am I nuts to think that my SC Trem/Custom can have plenty of punch without sounding like a Lester?

[Dan Desy]

Thanks guys for all the feedback.

I guess I am opened to pickup swaps and what not - I do like the #6s for other reasons, that I would lose... But I'm resolved to finding a solution now - I'm making it my life mission :)

As much as I enjoy the LP now, it's not meant to be my main axe. First thing I would need is a good trem, which only my PRS can provide currently. I want my LP to sound this good, but I don't want it to be all alone...

[Erik]

Dan, you got me thinking tonight about this post...and I swapped pickups in my Lester...AGAIN!!!! I originally took out the Burstbucker Pros and put in the '59/Custom 5 combo. That setup was amazing, almost too much, so I put the BB's back in. After playing awhile tonight, I realized it was they weren't quite tight enough. For kicks, I replaced the bridge BB with the C-5 and left the BB neck pickup in there...PERFECT!! I found that my rig is set up very mid heavy (which the C-5 compliments as it is slightly scooped) and that didn't bode well for the '59. The BB neck is just warm and dark enough to sound perfect when being played clean. I found the perfect combination...and it was all thanks to you.



The check is in the mail!!



Erik H

[John Cowan]

Dan,

Maybe you ought to sell that SCut Trem to me so I can make sure you hearing things right:D

[PRSKILLER]

I love the LP sound to. You should here this one.......
http://img21.photobucket.com/albums/v62/PRSKILLER/000_0805.jpg

[Dan Desy]

I'll be checking the mail, Erik. Glad you found the ultimate setup.

And John, everything has a price... :)

Well, I checked pickup height last night and they're basically identical... I thought the LP was closer to the strings (Closer to the Strings, Yay!), since I set it up myself after the work I did, but it isn't. Also, since the neck's at an angle, it creates the illusion of the pickups being higher...

I played both the LP and the SCT lastnight and here's what I noticed - the bootom end on the LP is simply more focused and punchy. On the high end, the SCT sings way more, which is great for lead, but I love the punchy rhythm sound the Lester puts out.

Does anyone have any experience with the Guitar Exciter pedal, which are supposed to focus the bottom end (as well as the top)? Any chance that's the holy grail that would add the elusive punchiness to my SCT?

[vangit]

Dan,
I have a good friend who is a tech/professional musician. I told him about your post. His opinion is this....you are trying to discover the obvious. He said pickup height, string guage, scale length, tone wood,etc, all can make a difference in tone. But if it's overall punch, it's simply the pick up. He said "in my opnion, Lesters are almost made with the intention to be played through a Marshall.....they go for a big sound". He doesn't think PRS pick ups are designed with that intention. He said if you want punch and power, just choose a pick up that was intended for that.

Again, the opinion of a friend.

[Dan Desy]

Dan,
I have a good friend who is a tech/professional musician. I told him about your post. His opinion is this....you are trying to discover the obvious. He said pickup height, string guage, scale length, tone wood,etc, all can make a difference in tone. But if it's overall punch, it's simply the pick up. He said "in my opnion, Lesters are almost made with the intention to be played through a Marshall.....they go for a big sound". He doesn't think PRS pick ups are designed with that intention. He said if you want punch and power, just choose a pick up that was intended for that.

Again, the opinion of a friend.
That's very interesting... Thanks for bringing it up to your friend. And I agree with everything that affects tone, but again, I'm not after the LP tone, just the punch that my PRSi lack. The PRS tone is great in general, just not in my face enough, I guess. Especially for heavy rhythm playing.

So what pickups are "intended" for punchy, focused bass? Gibsons, of course, but what else? Anything splittable?

[Reza]

If you want some great pups talk to jim wagner.

crcoils.com (http://crcoils.com)

E-mail him with your problem and he'll let you know which of his three pup sets may work for you. They are all highly rated. I believe the fillmores and goodwoods are the most popular. Good luck!

[vangit]

An here are the Seymour outputs and descriptions:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/tonechart.shtml#hum

Here's a link to the SeymourDuncan Tone Wizard
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/SDToneWizard/

[kev]

Dan,
I'm sure you can sympathize with this...When Alex Lifeson pulled out the lester on the last tour, his tone was freaking HUGE. My jaw hit the floor.
On this I totally agree. I love the entire RNR set, but my favorites tonewise are all Gibson. Unfortunately, since I didn't hear those tracks first, rather, I watched and listened, some of that may have to do with the visual bias as well. For another example, for years I thought that Alex used his 335 on the majority of ATWAS. I found out I was wrong and that he was using his LP Standard. My ears are not as trained as I like to think they are, but I will stand by my statement above regarding the RNR discs.

With regard to your post Dan, I'm gonna sound like a broken record.

Ted and benb both have pointed out one obvious thing, you found a great guitar/amp combination. From my own experience, this is absolutely a true thing. Also, try jumping up in string gauge on the SCTrem and see what it does. I was amazed at the improvement with my sound when I jumped up. It's less expensive than a pickup swap and less work (always a good thing!). Or the least expensive advice is what benb said, try some amp tweaking. This isn't a direct comparision to your rig, but when I switch from the 335 to the strat, my amp settings have to change, otherwise things are REALLY nasty. Again, that's not a direct comparision to yours, but the point is there.

[benb]

If you do go the pickup route, it might be worth trying a Bill Lawrence L-500. That's the pickup in the bridge position on the N4. Goodness knows Nuno gets some punchiness out of his guitar. Just make sure it's from Bill Lawrence and not StewMac...

http://www.billlawrence.com
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Pickup_Window/500.htm

[Dan Desy]

If you do go the pickup route, it might be worth trying a Bill Lawrence L-500. That's the pickup in the bridge position on the N4. Goodness knows Nuno gets some punchiness out of his guitar. Just make sure it's from Bill Lawrence and not StewMac...

http://www.billlawrence.com (http://www.billlawrence.com/)
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Pickup_Window/500.htm
OK, I'm curious...What's wrong with StewMac?

[benb]

Nothing wrong with stewmac, but here's what I understand of the Bill Lawrence situation...

StewMac sells a "Bill Lawrence" pickup and there is some company called "Bill Lawrence Pickup Company". But this isn't the same thing as actual pickups made and wound by the Bill Lawrence.

I don't even pretend to know all the history there, but here's my speculation...Bill Lawrence was associated with BLPC and left for whatever reason. They continue to make pickups that bear his name (and sell via stewmac) but they don't even begin to compare with real Bill Lawrence pickups.

There isn't anything wrong with stewmac or this other company (BLPC). But there is quite a bit of confusion regarding "Bill Lawrence" pickups in the marketplace.

Working with Bill is like working with Ron Thorn or Joe Driskill or any of the great builders that post here. It's a one-on-one thing and when you call the shop, you talk to him. Nice guy. And you really can't beat the price.

[benb]

more information regarding Bill's past ventures...

http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Bill_Lawrence_Documentary.htm

[Dan Desy]

Well, I had a rehearsal again last night, and this time I brought the Les Paul and the Custom 24. And indeed, the Custom had less punch thatn the SCT. Mind you the Custom is a much better lead guitar than the Les Paul - nothing wrong with the Les Paul for leads, but the Custom plays so much better.

The Les Paul blew me away once again with its punch... It's just so "there" on rhythm, where the Custom (and to a lesser extent the SCT) lack "presence".
It's really cool to find a guitar that kicks so hard, but it kind of bums me out at the same time.

Now I'm even thinking I'll trade my Custom for another Les Paul... And the SCT may require new pickups...

[kev]

If you do trade for another LP, is it too late to grab up the LP Custom your brother-in-law was selling? That looked like a good deal, although granted your vantage point is way better in that situation than mine.

[Dan Desy]

If you do trade for another LP, is it too late to grab up the LP Custom your brother-in-law was selling? That looked like a good deal, although granted your vantage point is way better in that situation than mine.
If I was buying, I would consider it. Even though it's in bad shape, it sounds and plays really great (and it's still for sale, by the way!). But the only thing he's trade for is a mintier Custom.

If I wanted to g for it do anything, it would take me a bit to sell the Custom and come up with cash, so I'd be more interested in trading.

[kev]

I don't understand your brother-in-law's logic. Your Custom is minty fresh :D ;) !!

Dude, I know where you are. I want to trade one of my existing guitars, but everyone I've bounced it off of says it's not a good idea.

[Dan Desy]

I don't understand your brother-in-law's logic. Your Custom is minty fresh :D ;) !!

Dude, I know where you are. I want to trade one of my existing guitars, but everyone I've bounced it off of says it's not a good idea.
I might have confused you with a *LesPaul* Custom vs a *PRS* Custom. My bro-in-law wants anothe Les Paul Custom - I wish to trade my PRS Custom...
As far as whether or not it's a good idea, I won't trade ASAP. If the right deal comes through, I'll go for it.

[kev]

No confusion, just my sarcastic bad sense of humor! Thanks though!

[Dan Desy]

No confusion, just my sarcastic bad sense of humor! Thanks though!
Sorry, I guess I'm a little slow today ;)

[Baba]

Dan, I don't see a problem here, just sell me your SC Trem, that way, you don't have to worry about it. I'll worry about the punchiness 'problem'! :D

Seriously, one of the things that make me the saddest about me, is that I just don't like playing LP's, but I love the way they sound. I'm not really playing rock right now, but if I need a heavy sound down the road, I wouldn't mind picking up a 1960's classic, black, with gold hardware!

[Carey Cox]

I love the tone of my Lester Standard. For a full sound, you can't beat the Lester. I also love my CU24. The PRS to me is more of a "super strat". I know it is compared to Gibsons and Paul designed them after the Les Paul Jr, but they are just more strat like to me. Not that there is anyting wrong with that!

[Dan Desy]

Dan, I don't see a problem here, just sell me your SC Trem, that way, you don't have to worry about it. I'll worry about the punchiness 'problem'! :D

Seriously, one of the things that make me the saddest about me, is that I just don't like playing LP's, but I love the way they sound. I'm not really playing rock right now, but if I need a heavy sound down the road, I wouldn't mind picking up a 1960's classic, black, with gold hardware!
Dude,

I was the top LP basher, and swore I'd never get one. I simply hated them.
Then one day, just for the hell of it, I decide to get an LP Studio as a cheap stop tail guitar, and install a piezo on it. Sounds pretty harmless, doesn't it?

Now I'm hooked! Help!

[jda]

Dude,

I was the top LP basher, and swore I'd never get one. I simply hated them.
Then one day, just for the hell of it, I decide to get an LP Studio as a cheap stop tail guitar, and install a piezo on it. Sounds pretty harmless, doesn't it?

Now I'm hooked! Help!

There is no way out. You've got Les Paul Fever! Historics come next!

[MCG]

Dan-

I hope I haven't missed this point in an earlier post... But have you considered that the punchyness my be a result of no trem cavity in your LP? Have you compared the Paul to a hard-tail PRS CU?

MCG

[Dan Desy]

Dan-

I hope I haven't missed this point in an earlier post... But have you considered that the punchyness my be a result of no trem cavity in your LP? Have you compared the Paul to a hard-tail PRS CU?

MCG
That's been suggested. And no, I have not compared it. But the thought is that the pickups have more to do with the punchiness than the wood or anything else.

In any case, the SCT is definitely staying - with or without PRS pickups!

[Dan Desy]

There is no way out. You've got Les Paul Fever! Historics come next!
Don't worry , Historics are already on my mind :eek:

But here's a question for you LP expert. What's a fair trade for a minty Custom 24 ten-top, in Les Paul terms? I have no additional cash, so it would have to be straight trade, or trade plus cash coming my way.
Would it be a standard/custom USA, or can I venture in Historic territory? I'm thinking a '58 plaintop might be within reach. Aren't the street prices for new specimens around the same? Or am I way out?
Let me know what you think I can/should aim for.

[kingsleyd]

Don't worry , Historics are already on my mind :eek:

But here's a question for you LP expert. What's a fair trade for a minty Custom 24 ten-top, in Les Paul terms? I have no additional cash, so it would have to be straight trade, or trade plus cash coming my way.
Would it be a standard/custom USA, or can I venture in Historic territory? I'm thinking a '58 plaintop might be within reach. Aren't the street prices for new specimens around the same? Or am I way out?
Let me know what you think I can/should aim for.

I don't think you'd be able to swap a "minty CU24 10-top" for any Historic LP, at least not through a dealer. The least expensive Historics, at retail, are the gold-top reissues which can occasionally be found for $1700 or $1800. I don't see you getting that much from a dealer for a regular production CU24, no matter how nice. For a '58 plaintop, expect to pay at least $2000, but more likely $2500 or more, depending on the year and other factors.

Mind you, that's all assuming that you're going through a dealer. You may be able to find an Historic LP owner that's jonesing for a CU24 and is willing to do a swap.

[Dan Desy]

I don't think you'd be able to swap a "minty CU24 10-top" for any Historic LP, at least not through a dealer. The least expensive Historics, at retail, are the gold-top reissues which can occasionally be found for $1700 or $1800. I don't see you getting that much from a dealer for a regular production CU24, no matter how nice. For a '58 plaintop, expect to pay at least $2000, but more likely $2500 or more, depending on the year and other factors.

Mind you, that's all assuming that you're going through a dealer. You may be able to find an Historic LP owner that's jonesing for a CU24 and is willing to do a swap.
I don't want to do this through a dealer. I was thinking someone on the forum or an ebay seller, or whatever. So I'm not totally off my rocker about potentially nabbing a nice 58 for my Custom?

[Dan Desy]

By the way, what's the url for "THE" Les Paul Forum? Is it www.lespaulforum.org (http://www.lespaulforum.org)?

[Erik]

Dan,

That is the correct link. There's quite a few familiar faces over there...most of us use the same screen name, too.



Erik

[Dan Desy]

Dan,

That is the correct link. There's quite a few familiar faces over there...most of us use the same screen name, too.


Erik
Thanks, Erik. How long does it take to get "approved"? I'm waiting...

[Erik]

If I recall correctly, probably a few hours.



Erik

[richedie]

Dan,

Sorry to dig up this old post but I was wondering what ever came of this situation. What was your final solution? Did you end up accepting the differences....LOL. I go through the same sort of thing with my 2003 LP Standard. It sounds big with a lot of low end grunt and punch and that is with the stock pickups. I think one of the best pickup sets I found for my LP is the Duncan C-5/59. I may go back to this soon.

My McCarty sounds smoother and nice in its own way but doesn't have the punch or focus. Funny thing is, I like a lot of modern hard rock bands that play PRS exclusively and they have great tone.

I was thinking of Dragon IIs or the C-5/59 set for my McCarty as you know. I was thinking of rather than use the same pickups for both I could use PRS pickups in the McCarty to maintain some of that PRS tone. But, I know a guy from the Duncan form who said the C-5 made a big difference in the tone of his McCarty. More low end grunt. I also know of a guy who uses the C-5/59 set in almost all of his humbucking guitars...LPs....McCartys...etc.

I think it is nice to have a variety of sounds to pull from so maybe don't try to hard to get the PRS as punchy as the Paul?

Ultimately I'd love to have a Strat and SG Standard to add to my small LP and McCarty stock.

I'll let ya know if I try the C-5 in my LP or McCarty.

I still think the McCarty will sound rather different from the the LP even with the same pickups.

Did you ever try rasing the pickups or radiusing the pole pieces? I actually found that my LP is punchier than my McCarty even with the pickups set lower than the McCarty.

[Dan Desy]

Dan,

Sorry to dig up this old post but I was wondering what ever came of this situation. What was your final solution? Did you end up accepting the differences....LOL. I go through the same sort of thing with my 2003 LP Standard. It sounds big with a lot of low end grunt and punch and that is with the stock pickups. I think one of the best pickup sets I found for my LP is the Duncan C-5/59. I may go back to this soon.

My McCarty sounds smoother and nice in its own way but doesn't have the punch or focus. Funny thing is, I like a lot of modern hard rock bands that play PRS exclusively and they have great tone.

I was thinking of Dragon IIs or the C-5/59 set for my McCarty as you know. I was thinking of rather than use the same pickups for both I could use PRS pickups in the McCarty to maintain some of that PRS tone. But, I know a guy from the Duncan form who said the C-5 made a big difference in the tone of his McCarty. More low end grunt. I also know of a guy who uses the C-5/59 set in almost all of his humbucking guitars...LPs....McCartys...etc.

I think it is nice to have a variety of sounds to pull from so maybe don't try to hard to get the PRS as punchy as the Paul?

Ultimately I'd love to have a Strat and SG Standard to add to my small LP and McCarty stock.

I'll let ya know if I try the C-5 in my LP or McCarty.

I still think the McCarty will sound rather different from the the LP even with the same pickups.

Did you ever try rasing the pickups or radiusing the pole pieces? I actually found that my LP is punchier than my McCarty even with the pickups set lower than the McCarty.
I changed the pickups on my Custom 24 (Screamin' Demon/59). Mission accomplished. And on my Singlecut Trem, I changed the bridge pup to a Custom 5.

They don't sound like a Les Paul, but that's not what I wanted to achieve.I appreciate the tonal differences between my guitars. As long as they all make my face melt! :dude:

[thegammarays]

i kinda had a similar experience over the weekend...my band gigs about once a week and for the past couple of shows i've been playing my SCTs...my problem was/is that i keep breaking strings on them...and these are both brand new...i put on a fresh set of 9s before the gig and within a set or 2 i broke an A string...anyway, i do tend to hit kinda hard when i'm up there sometimes...

this past weekend i broke out my 59 historic instead and that thing completely ripped!!

now i'm torn...

[Dan Desy]

i kinda had a similar experience over the weekend...my band gigs about once a week and for the past couple of shows i've been playing my SCTs...my problem was/is that i keep breaking strings on them...and these are both brand new...i put on a fresh set of 9s before the gig and within a set or 2 i broke an A string...anyway, i do tend to hit kinda hard when i'm up there sometimes...

this past weekend i broke out my 59 historic instead and that thing completely ripped!!

now i'm torn...
String breaking, rip, torn... I see a pattern :)

Check your bridge saddles for burrs. I have no particular problam breaking strings on my SCT.

[richedie]

Dan, I always go with fairly heavy strings but you have me thinking of maybe doing the Dragon IIs for the McCarty now. The only issue is that PRS guitar are inherently midrangy and the Dragon IIs have a mid hump.

The nice thing about the C-5/59 is it allows the guitar to speak but I'll still get McCarty tones and LP tones.

[thegammarays]

dan
these are brand new guitars...weird...

[Dan Desy]

dan
these are brand new guitars...weird...
It's definitely not unheard of. Check your saddles - it should be covered by the warranty!

[richedie]

I don't know what to think now Dan. I tweaked the McCarty bridge to about 2/32" and radiused the screws and man is it pretty darn punchy.....no lie bro. Sounds sweet. I hope they remain like this with heavier strings in Eb.

I played a bunch of PRS models the other day and I have played SCs. I really find the McCarty has the punchiest tone. Call me crazy.

Right now I have 10s.

Dan, what pickups are in the LP??

[Drpcr]

a LP is a LP, a PRS is a PRS,

why does alex play a LP custom, LP standard, SC, and PRS? cause they are all different.

COmon dan, u should have known that?!?! u call urself a rush fan.

No I Love my LPs, the bottom is just amazing. I'm sorry u can't play good old southern rock without a LP. The SC, if I'm playing modern stuff is great, but if I'm playing Allman brothers, its my LPs. Nothin comes close.

Hey Dan I loved my LP studio, wine red and ebony fret board. I found a wine red LP standard with an ebony board, about 8 yrs ago so I got that to replace my LP studio. In mine opinion, LP studios with ebony fretboards are one of the best deals around.

[Dan Desy]

a LP is a LP, a PRS is a PRS,

why does alex play a LP custom, LP standard, SC, and PRS? cause they are all different.

COmon dan, u should have known that?!?! u call urself a rush fan.

No I Love my LPs, the bottom is just amazing. I'm sorry u can't play good old southern rock without a LP. The SC, if I'm playing modern stuff is great, but if I'm playing Allman brothers, its my LPs. Nothin comes close.

Hey Dan I loved my LP studio, wine red and ebony fret board. I found a wine red LP standard with an ebony board, about 8 yrs ago so I got that to replace my LP studio. In mine opinion, LP studios with ebony fretboards are one of the best deals around.
I agree on the studio. It's an amazing guitar for $600... even better with the piezo! :dude:

But like I saod, I appreciate the differences between my guitars, and I don't want them to sound all alike. I just want them all to have the LP punch, that's all. Is that so wrong? ;)

[richedie]

I agree on the differences. That is why I tend to look for a guitar that is very different from the ones I just purchesed.

Dan, the McCarty pickups if tweaked correctly are turning out to be very punchy and full.

I remember the last time I saw RUSH live and Alex spent a lot of time switching between LPs, Strats, SGs, Teles, PRS guitars......

......I need more guitars....:)

[Dan Desy]

I agree on the differences. That is why I tend to look for a guitar that is very different from the ones I just purchesed.

Dan, the McCarty pickups if tweaked correctly are turning out to be very punchy and full.

I remember the last time I saw RUSH live and Alex spent a lot of time switching between LPs, Strats, SGs, Teles, PRS guitars......

......I need more guitars....:)
Dude,

If the McCarty piskups are sounding good to you, keep them! What moer could you want?

And you want more guitars. We all want more guitars. Don't use the "N" word here... ;)

[richedie]

Oops! I want more guitars.:)

[LWR49]

I haven't measured the distance between the strings and the pickups yet - that's what I want to do.

also, interetsingly, I am using 9-42's on the SC Trem, 9-46 on the Custom and 10-52 (whatever the SBHT Slinkys are) on the LP. But frankly, although it probably make some difference, I don't think it accounts for what I'm hearing!
I think that if you put the 10-52's on the SCT and then tune down a half step this will usually give you a bigger rounder tone!;)

[Big Mike]

I think that if you put the 10-52's on the SCT and then tune down a half step this will usually give you a bigger rounder tone!;)
Man you're digging up some old threads lately Leo :)

Know what worked for me? SOS strings and a set of tapped #10's.

Rocking tone!!! Them 6's are just to thin in the bridge for me.

[LWR49]

Man you're digging up some old threads lately Leo :)

Know what worked for me? SOS strings and a set of tapped #10's.

Rocking tone!!! Them 6's are just to thin in the bridge for me.The last reply before mine was 9/13/04. Better late than never oops! I didn't even know that they made 6's what are those sissy strings. I find the heavier the gauge the better the tone, that's what Stevie was all about big strings and big tone!! ;) OOps! you meant pickups not strings.:o The stock pups in my SC sound just fine with 10-52's

[Big Mike]

The last reply before mine was 9/13/04. Better late than never oops! I didn't even know that they made 6's what are those sissy strings. I find the heavier the gauge the better the tone, that's what Stevie was all about big strings and big tone!! ;) OOps! you meant pickups not strings.:o The stock pups in my SC sound just fine with 10-52's

Oops not clear. The SCT comes stock with PRS#6 pickups. I changed to PRS#10 pickups. I use 10 gauge SOS strings. Your SC has #7 PRS pups I imagine.

[LWR49]

Oops not clear. The SCT comes stock with PRS#6 pickups. I changed to PRS#10 pickups. I use 10 gauge SOS strings. Your SC has #7 PRS pups I imagine.I just did a Microsoft update:mad: and I'm having some trouble with my email.
But to answer your question they are #7 pups in there.;) What's the diff. in the sound of the #6's

[Big Mike]

I just did a Microsoft update:mad: and I'm having some trouble with my email.
But to answer your question they are #7 pups in there.;) What's the diff. in the sound of the #6's

Having not played #7's I'm not sure. Apparently they are close, but the #7 is supposed to be wound to compensate for the long wire run to the toggle on an SC.

#6 neck pickup (these are uncovered, there's another difference) is nice. Warm round, and splits well. The bridge pup is shrill with no huevos to me. Just drove me nuts. I love Dragon II's but wanted a bit diff so I went with the 10's. Good choice. More of a vintage vibe.

[LWR49]

I love the uncovered DII's my DII was actually the best sounding guitar that I had. Sorry to see it go!!:( Some guy here in Worcester bought it then traded it to Garrett Park Guitars the last I know Fretbuzz owns it now unless he sold it already.;)

[richedie]

also, interetsingly, I am using 9-42's on the SC Trem, 9-46 on the Custom and 10-52 (whatever the SBHT Slinkys are) on the LP. But frankly, although it probably make some difference, I don't think it accounts for what I'm hearing!

Dan, believe me!.......The LP already has a larger body and on top of that you have the 10-52 strings! I am in a similar situation where my McCarty has 10-46 and my LP has 11-54! HUGE difference in thump!

I tried my McCarty with 10-50 and even that was noticable! Try the larger strings on your PRS and watch the thump factor go up! My McCarty pickups are thumping just fine.:)

[kikujiro0208]

Dan, I'm with you.

Acquired a R7 recently and currently my main axe (and hopefully for a long long time...).

* My lester does not have the beautiful flames as my PRSi
* My lester does not have easy access to the higher fret regions
* My lester's neck is more difficult to play than my PRSi's neck
* My lester weighs more than my PRSi
* My lester has more tuning problems than my PRSi
* My lester lacks the high-end craftmanship compared to my PRSi

So I believe it's all about TONE!
I really dig the TONE coming from my lester and therefore I am willing to forgive all the former shortcomings...

Regards,

[Scott Peterson]

And I agree with everything that affects tone, but again, I'm not after the LP tone, just the punch that my PRSi lack.

Dan,

I disagree with you on this point you made - you are indeed trying to get your PRS to sound like your Gibsin (:D) and it will not happen.

I was one of the most hardcore PRS guys on earth I would think; for years. I bought a Hamer Custom Studio Archtop as a backup for live work; and had the same experience as you. It killed ever PRSi I had live with tone. No way around it, it just did.

So I ended up here - playing Thorn, Melancon, Anderson, Hamer and PRS. I had 12 PRS all at once (and over 36 over the years) and now I have one. I just love it for what it is; but it isn't a LP or a Hamer. It is simply a PRS. Nothing wrong with it.

You just had an epiphany and need to take off the PRS-colored glasses. :D

No flame, no snide comments - just letting you know my experience. NO guitar or brand is everything to all people or even everything to any one person.

[Big Mike]

Man it cracks me up when old threads get dug up.


Interesting.

I actually had Dan's original SCT drama myself last night. My SCT (#10 pups) sounded thin and crappy through my Rivera Rig. (G12H/V30 cab) Switched to my Standard 24 and WHoa mamma!!! Put the o in Ooooomph! Clean, the SCT neck pickup was money. Killer tone. Dirty, so-so. Bridge, really not happening. Sounds good through my Dr Z and pedals, but the rivera? Yucky.

Standard was money all the way around. Clean, dirty, Notchy type positions on the rotary, everything. Just fricken screamed. Took up so much more space in the mix, which is now a good thing as we're down to a 3 peice band.

I may swap pups one more time, but I hate to say it, if it don't float my boat with the band, it's outta here.

[richedie]

I think it is all personal experience and how we perceive things. I had two Hamers as an example: one Hamer Mirage and one Hamer Studio archtop. My LP Standard and Dean Evo both beat out the Hamers live with the band so I sold the Hamers. I have yet to play the McCarty with the band so time will tell. The moral of the story is that all of our experiences will be way different. I also couldn't get into how Hamers play or feel. I can only imagine this McCarty will sound amazing live with the band. My particular Studio sounded too thin in live situations.

For me the Les Paul is the perfect guitar for "me"; deep, rich, tone, that is to die for. Luckily, I think I found a PRS that is the perfect compliment. I have a difficult time describing the tonal differences between my McCarty and LP but they seem to compliment each other so well. Now, all I want is a strat and an SG Standard.:) But that is just it......thus far the LP has been my perfect guitar. We are all different! I have a friend who swears by his CU22 for similar reasons.....it sounds awesome and is perfect for him.

I have played a lot of guitars ove the years.....Ibanez...Peavey....Kramer.....Gibson...F ender.....Hamer....Dean....etc.

I realized the things I like are a deep, rich, balanced tone, preferrably shorter scale, set neck, 22 frets, hard tail (gave up on trems years ago), and serious vibe. Gibson and PRS have serious vibe to me.

I also don't agree with PRSi playing better than LPs....that is a personal preference! I like 'em both equally and they b oth play equally well, but different.

[FrankiePRS]

For live playing, nothing comes close to my PRS's for me... but my Lesters do crush them in terms of big thick lush punch... the things i have to give up (22 frets, no trem, heavy) aren't worth it to me, especially when that punch is pretty much limited to 2 tones, unlike my PRS's which cover a lot more ground. It's fun to grab the '69 Goldtop for Train Kept a'Rollin', just like it's fun to grab my '57 Strat for Little Wing, but the PRS's will always be my mains. The one time I tried to play a buddy's SCT, i have to admit... it sounded really wimpy compared to ALL the guitars I just mentioned.

[DanHund]

... The one time I tried to play a buddy's SCT, i have to admit... it sounded really wimpy compared to ALL the guitars I just mentioned.
Boy you can say that again. Its no wonder they quit making them.

































;)

[Big Mike]

I really think my issue is pickup related. Acoustically it's big and bold like my CU22. There's gotta be something I'm not digging in the #10,and #6 bridge pickup. I don't expect it to sound like my lester. I expect it to be more clean and articulate, which it is. I was just ticked off earlier. #10's neck is great, but the bridge aint getting it done through that amp.

[LWR49]

You just had an epiphany and need to take off the PRS-colored glasses. :D


Now that's another Guitar Company altogether. That is before gibson took it over and ruined it!! ;)

[LWR49]

Man it cracks me up when old threads get dug up.


Interesting.
Did I stir up some old $hit or what. See,.. old threads can come to life again!;)