Two Seymours in PRS - HELP!

[ruezzz]

Hello to everbody, I'm new here...

I exchanged the Dragon II's in my '99 PRS for two SD's.
So far.
Now the wiring... I'm confused and can't get it right.
I prefer a wiring without having to flip the magnet.
I have the 5-way rotary switch (latest version) in my PRS.
Could anybody pass me a diagram, I can't find anything suitable.
The diagram on the Seymour D website shows a different switch.

Maybe even sent me a digital photograph of the electronic compartment of someone who's got it done right?

I hope you can help me out. Greetings Ruezzz from Holland

[Dan Desy]

Welcome to BAM!

Here is Jim Collins' post in another thread around here. In case you don't know who Jim is, you want to be his best buddy if you're going to be screwing around with pickups and wires ;)

The two humbuckers must have opposing magnetic polarity. It doesn't matter which humbucker has its magnet flipped, as long as one, and only one, of the humbuckers has its magnet flipped. If you know, for certain, that the 59 in the neck did not have its magnet flipped, you'll have to flip one of the magnets. If you don't know, for certain, it is easy to tell. Place the pickups together, face to face, with the slug pole pieces of each pickup touching each other, and the adjustable pole pieces of each pickup touching each other. If you feel a magnetic attraction, they have opposing magnetic polarity, and you don't need to do anything. If you feel the pickups magnetically repelling each other, the two pickups have the same polarity, and one must have its magnet flipped.

Once you have the magnetic polarity sorted out, the wiring is simple. Both pickups will be wired the same way.

Duncan black = PRS white
Duncan red+white = PRS red
Duncan green = PRS black
Bare wire goes to ground (either volume pot casing or tone pot casing, whichever is more convenient)

The PCB has everything labeled.

I believe that if you don't want to flip the magnet on one pickup, you'll need to reverse its connection (reverse the black and green wires) on the rotary PCB to make the single coil positions (7, 8, 9) hum cancelling. This will however affect your sound, by making the pickups out of phase realtive to each other, if I'm not mstaken.

Still worth a try, but flipping the magnet is the way to go in my opinion.

Good luck!

[Dan Desy]

Oh by the way, for more info, you can do a search for Jim Collins' posts in this section. There's probably a book's worth of good advice in there!

[ruezzz]

Thanx Dan!

That's clear language!

[Dan Desy]

Just trying to help. Let us know how your experiment turns out.

By the way, which SDs are you putting in there? I put a Screamin' Demon and a '59 in my Custom 24. Big improvement to my ears.

[ruezzz]

A PAF '59 in the bridge position and an Alnico Pro 2 for the neck.

But aahh... what kind of rotary-switch do you have in your guitar?
I guess an other one then I have. My PRS is from 1999 with a bolt on neck... I definitely have to get myself one with a glued on neck once.
First have to to a little bankrobbery...

Did you put the pickups in yourself?

[Dan Desy]

A PAF '59 in the bridge position and an Alnico Pro 2 for the neck.

But aahh... what kind of rotary-switch do you have in your guitar?
I guess an other one then I have. My PRS is from 1999 with a bolt on neck... I definitely have to get myself one with a glued on neck once.
First have to to a little bankrobbery...

Did you put the pickups in yourself?
So you have a CE (22 or 24). I have a Custom 24. Same Electronics (different pickups in 22 vs. 24), same rotary selector. Just different neck and neck attachment scheme. You can see mine in my Sig!

I did replace the pickups myself. As long as your can handle the soldering iron, no sweat!

[ikkyu2]

Duncan pups have serial numbers. For example, the Alnico Pro II humbucker is APH-1.

When you actually have one in your hot hands, though, they are labeled something like APH-1B or APH-1N. The B/N means 'bridge' or 'neck'. The SH-1 '59s and SH-6 Distortions also do come in a Neck and Bridge model, and even my Allan Holdsworth pup was the SH-AH1B (but I don't think they ever made that in a neck pickup!) As an example the Allan Holdsworth's sticker said AH1BL on it; AH1 being the pickup type, B meaning Bridge, and L being the initial of the employee who wound it.

Anyway, that's how you deal with this whole magnet flipping business. It's hard to disassemble a wax-potted Duncan - I don't recommend it. Actually it's easy to disassemble it. Getting it back together again in working order and potting it again is the hard part.

[ruezzz]

I got the appropriate Bridge and Neck versions of both the pups.

[ruezzz]

I did it!!!

Thanx again y'all. You ROCK!!!
I flipped the Alnico's Magnet and used your colorschedule.
30 minutes of effort...

My problem seemed to be that I started of wrong with totally incorrect information given to me by a dutch guitarshop...

Soundimprovement? Certainly!!!

[Dan Desy]

I did it!!!

Thanx again y'all. You ROCK!!!
I flipped the Alnico's Magnet and used your colorschedule.
30 minutes of effort...

My problem seemed to be that I started of wrong with totally incorrect information given to me by a dutch guitarshop...

Soundimprovement? Certainly!!!
Very cool! Congrats! :dude:

Glad I could help you out.

[joeln87]

I have a jazz and custom in my LP.. iv never tried any magnet tests.. so how would i know if its flipped right?... or not right..

also.. im thinking about geting duncans for the mccarty- probly a jazz.. and somthing else but i dontknow what ...

with the jazz and the custom . when i select the middle position you can BARELY
here the custom.. what could be wrong everything looks fine..


thanks guys
joel

[ruezzz]

See this thread: Dan explained the flipping story. it's easy...

[richedie]

I am thoroughly confused! Why do you have to switch a magnet in one of the Duncans??? Is this only if you replace one of the pickups??? I assume this is not necessary if replacing two PRS pickups with two Duncans because it would be like wiring any guitar, right?

[Dan Desy]

I am thoroughly confused! Why do you have to switch a magnet in one of the Duncans??? Is this only if you replace one of the pickups??? I assume this is not necessary if replacing two PRS pickups with two Duncans because it would be like wiring any guitar, right?You need to flip a magnet for the 5 way rotary selector. You don't have to for McCarty switching.

[Jim Collins]

A PRS rotary switch guitar features five hum cancelling sounds. Three of those hum cancelling sounds feature like coils from two different pickups -- either a slug coil from each pickup or an adjustable pole piece coil from each pickup. For two coils to produce a hum cancelling sound, the coils must have opposing magnetic polarity and be wired in reverse of each other (reverse wound). A typical pickup manufacturer builds all of his pickups with the same magnetic polarity. This means that a two humbuckers from the same manufacturer could not have the slug pole piece coils of each combine to yield a hum cancelling sound, unless the magnet of one pickup is flipped. PRS builds pickups for rotary switch guitars such that the neck pickup and bridge pickup have opposing magnetic polarity. PRS does not do this for pickups that are normally found in non-rotary switch guitars. Notice the single coil parallel sound in a stock McCarty (toggle in the middle, tone control pulled). It is not hum cancelling.

[richedie]

Thanks guys! I only use the single coil sounds with clean and maybe light distortion so I shouldn't have to sorry. Thanks.

[converge]

i recently had my CU24 (stock HFS/VB) converted to McCarty switching by a tech at Sam Ash. do i need to flip one of the magnets if i want to throw in some Duncan's?

[Jim Collins]

First, let me define "true" McCarty switching. When the tone control is pulled, only the outside (adjustable pole piece) coil from each pickup is available. If the two pickups have the same magnetic polarity, this is easily achieved by sending the "center" lead of each pickup to ground, when the tone control is pulled. This shorts out the slug coil of each pickup. (For McCarty pickups, the "center" lead is the white wire. For Duncan pickups, the "center" lead is comprised of the red and white wires.)

If the guitar was converted to "true" McCarty switching, using the original HFS/VB pickups, the wiring is different from stock McCarty wiring, using McCarty pickups. If the "center" lead from each pickup were to be sent to ground when the tone control is pulled, one of the pickups would have its slug coil chosen. While this would produce a usable tone, it is not "true" McCarty switching. For these pickups, one will have to have its center lead go to hot, instead of ground.

If your guitar has "true" McCarty switching, and you were to install a set of Duncans without flipping the magnet in one of them, the wiring would change, a little. To determine if your guitar has "true" McCarty switching, take a look at the DPDT switch on the tone control. If one side of the DPDT switch selects either the "center" lead, or the normal hot lead, to the toggle switch, it has "true" McCarty switching. If both sides of the switch send the "center" lead to ground, it is not exactly the same as McCarty switching.

[converge]

thanks for the info. so, "true" McCarty switching = only outside coil(s) when tone knob is pulled...and incorrect McCarty switching = ?

[richedie]

So Jim, maybe in my case where I am thinking about changing pickups...I'd be best going with the Dragon IIs in my McCarty rather than experiment with Duncans or Rios. Do you agree?

I am afraid I am not savy enoughj to know how to wire a Rio or Duncan set to exact McCarty switching specs.

[Jim Collins]

If the wiring is not "true" McCarty wiring, with the HFS/VB pickups, one pickup will have its adjustable coil available, and the other pickup will have its slug coil available. It will still be a usable sound.

Assuming your guitar has the HFS/VB pickups, put the selector switch in the middle position (both pickups), and pull the tone control. Is the sound hum cancelling, or does it have the typical single coil noise? If it is hum cancelling, and it has those pickups, it is true McCarty. The two pickups already have opposing magnetic polarity, so if the adjustable pole piece coils of each pickup are being used, the sound would be hum cancelling. If you are getting single coil noise, in that position, it means you are using the adjustable pole piece coil from one pickup, and the slug coil from the other.

If the pickups have the same magnetic polarity (stock McCarty pickups are like this), the sound from the middle/pulled position will not be hum cancelling.

[converge]

i've determined that my CU24 was converted to "true" McCarty switching. so would i use the McCarty wiring scheme if i want to install a set of Duncans?

[Jim Collins]

If you wanted to install a set of Duncans without doing anything to the pickups, you have to change the wiring in your guitar -- both pickups will have green and bare going to ground, and black going to hot. Futhermore, each pickup will have red and white tied together. One red+white will go to lug #3 on the DPDT switch (left, closest to pot). The other red+white will go to lug #6 (right, closest to pot). Then, a wire must go from ground to lugs #2 AND #5 (both middle lugs).

If you want to have a hum cancelling middle position, when the tone control is pulled, then flip the magnet in one of the pickups, and wire each pickup like this:
Duncan black = PRS white
Duncan green = PRS black
Duncan red+white = PRS red.

[senzr]

Hi, I'm new around here.

Just got my Tremonti SE about a month ago, and I love it. But as anyone with Gear Acquisition Syndrome will tell you, I can't leave enough alone.

So I was considering switching to either a duncan JB-Jazz combo, or PRS HFS/Vintage Bass.

My questions are:
1. Since the TSE is a straightforward 3 position pickup selector, any duncan pickup combo (wound in same polarity from factory) would be a straight replacement, right?

2. Are the PRS pickups which are sold separately wound in opposite polarities out of the box? Would putting these pickups in my TSE require any magnet flipping?

3. Does this magnet flipping ONLY apply to 5 position rotary switch guitars?
Thanks!

[richedie]

Hi, I'm new around here.

Just got my Tremonti SE about a month ago, and I love it. But as anyone with Gear Acquisition Syndrome will tell you, I can't leave enough alone.

So I was considering switching to either a duncan JB-Jazz combo, or PRS HFS/Vintage Bass.

My questions are:
1. Since the TSE is a straightforward 3 position pickup selector, any duncan pickup combo (wound in same polarity from factory) would be a straight replacement, right?

2. Are the PRS pickups which are sold separately wound in opposite polarities out of the box? Would putting these pickups in my TSE require any magnet flipping?

3. Does this magnet flipping ONLY apply to 5 position rotary switch guitars?
Thanks!
I would save a little cash and pick up a Rio Grande BBQ/Texas set. If not, how about the Dragon II set?

[senzr]

I had never heard of Rio Grande before seeing it on this forum, but they sure look interesting. I don't think I'll be able to find them in this part of the world though (I'm in Malaysia).

What do they sound like?

[richedie]

They are fat, thick, rich, dynamic, responsive, with loads of character. Best deal going! Have you tried ebay??

[senzr]

Haven't tried ebay yet, but if the new Sum 41 album was recorded with those pickups, they sound pretty good.

Thanks for the tip!

About my tech questions above...Would reverse wound PRS replacement pickups need to have their magnets flipped to the same polarity to be installed in a regular 3-way toggle guitar?

[richedie]

A lot of bands have used the Rios...Clutch with their Rio loaded McNaughts are another.

[Jim Collins]

My questions are:
1. Since the TSE is a straightforward 3 position pickup selector, any duncan pickup combo (wound in same polarity from factory) would be a straight replacement, right?

2. Are the PRS pickups which are sold separately wound in opposite polarities out of the box? Would putting these pickups in my TSE require any magnet flipping?

3. Does this magnet flipping ONLY apply to 5 position rotary switch guitars?
Thanks!
1. Yes, any Duncan combo would be a straight replacement. Duncan green = ground, Duncan black = hot, Duncan bare = ground for the metal base, and Duncan red and white are soldered together and taped off.

2. PRS pickups that are normally found in rotary switch guitars feature neck and bridge pickups with opposing magnetic polarity. They are sold this way, though you might find a mistake, now and then. (Of the several pair of rotary switch guitar pickups I've purchased, one pair had the same polarity.) Those PRS pickups not found on rotary switch guitars feature neck and bridge pickups with the same polarity.

3. Yes and no. It applies to the rotary switch, for sure, although if the new pickups have four conductors plus a ground, they can be installed in a rotary switch guitar without flipping the magnet of one of them. In this case, the two pickups are wired different from each other, and the middle three sounds will not be hum cancelling. If the guitar has true McCarty wiring, and the neck and bridge pickups have opposing magnetic polarity, then the middle/pulled position will be hum cancelling. In a standard McCarty, this position is not hum cancelling.