eBay/Wire funds transfer problem - thoughts please?

[Christopher Wade]

So I sold my 22 semi-hollow through eBay to a guy in the UK for $1449, bank cheque only. He asked if he could wire the funds. I checked with my bank and yes, but there would be a $15 fee.

I told the buyer this and said that if he wired $1464 into my account, it was his.

As a side note, he asked me to deliver the guitar to Jack Gretz to repair some damage and ship, and he settled with Jack separately. I gave Jack the guitar the day after the auction. It's my assumptio nthat the guitar is already gone and I wouldn't stick Jack in the middle of this anyway by asking him to hold it while this gets sorted out.

Here's where the problem lies: the end result of the wire was that $1444, not $1464, ended up in my account. As a separate transaction, my bank charged, as expected, a $15 fee.

http://www.icontech.com/~chrisw/SH-bank.jpg

I spoke to my bank manager (a personal friend) who suggested that the buyer misunderstood his bank's fee structure and they took an additional $20 out of the funds. I've shown him the above statement, all he's shown me is a screen shot of an email saying that $1464 was sent. He, and his bank, have suggested that an 'intermediary bank" might have dipped in. I suppose it could have, but again, that's not my doing and getting the money here isn't my problem to deal with - I don't think.

To my mind, how it happened is not my issue. My issue is that at the end of the transaction, I'm short $20 from what was agreed upon.

I don't think he's trying to scam me out of $20, it's honestly not worth it - and he seems to be a nice guy. But figuring in eBay fees, I'm making much less on this guitar than I needed to. And it's the principle as well.

My position is that we agreed that at the end, I'd have $1464 in my account from him, and I don't.

What's your opinion? I'm going to direct him to this thread (he's not on here as far as I know) and live with the decision. Please don't say "it's only $20". Being unemployed, which is why I sold the guitar, $20 is $20. Am I right in that it's his responsibility to get the whole amount to me?

(as a side note, this has also convinced me to never take a wire transfer again. Next time, the buyer can wait 2 weeks for a bank check to arrive and clear. No more favors, no more being a nice guy and getting stuck for it)

[PRSKILLER]

I`m guessing the both of you don`t have a PayPal account? Whenever I do ebay it`s PayPal or Postal Money Order, ONLY!

As for the 20 bucks I can see his point and your point, I mean if he sent the amount as specified by you yet you got short then something is screwed up there. This day and age there is so much fine print and hidden charges that it may cost you more just to find out, headache wise. Ask him to send you $20. money order.

[aleclee]

Another possibility is that you got boned on the exchange rate.

[Christopher Wade]

Another possibility is that you got boned on the exchange rate.
That occurred to me as well, but it seems odd that with variations occurring by hundreds of a point that it would be EXACTLY $20.

And again, not my problem as I see it. The deal was $1464 in my account. How it gets there is his problem.

Killer: I avoided PayPal because 3% seemed a lot to ask. I won't make that mistake again. Plus, PayPal scares me internationally because a buyer can do a charge back and claim he's unsatisfied with what he received.

[Jon Silberman]

If he's as nice a guy as he seems to be from your description of him and the transaction up to the problem point, I'm sure if you politely ask him for the $20 remainder due he'll just pay it. I know I would.

But if for any reasons he doesn't, Chris, I know you asked us not to say it, but seriously, what is your happiness worth? It's got to be more than $20. Seek to get the money you're due but if you don't succeed, let it go.

[Christopher Wade]

I'm not going to go after him for the money. It's the principle and the fact that he's using the bank as a runaround. If it was me, I'd PayPal him $20 - if for nothing else than to avoid negative/neutral feedback. I shouldn't have to come out and tell him he owes me $20 and get pissy about it. It seems like he's waiting for me to.

I'm more annoyed than anything. I spent a lot of time doing unpaid legwork for him - getting in touch with Jack Gretz, delivering the guitar for inspection, getting price quotes and sending them, delivering the guitar to Jack and in general being an intermediary.

He wanted good repair work done, so I took it upon myself to make sure it got done, and done right. I could have just told him to send me my money and figure it out himself.

I consider it another lesson learned. And unfortunately, the next guy will pay for it. NO wire transfers. Send a check and wait. And wait. And wait.

No more Mr. Nice Guy.

[jas]

In my company we used to have a similar problem with certain Canadian customers. They would pay us in US funds but their bank or an intermediary bank would dip in and take a small amount so we would be on the short end.

It wasn't the customer's fault and it certainly wasn't our fault but we were out the money (or "oot" as the Canadian customer might've said).

Yes, I believe it's the buyer's responsibility to make sure you get the amount that you and he agreed on.

In my example above, however, we never went after the customer for the money because it was never worth alienating a well-intentioned and paying customer.

Your ire should be directed at the bank - which is like being angry at Napoleon for all the good it will do you.

-John

[tibobibo]

When you do a direct money transfer abroad, you get asked on the form whether

a. you want to pay the fees on the UK side
b. whether you want to pay the fees on the US side

Last time I sent money abroad, there was no problem. All fees were paid by me. IIRC, the US-side fee showed up on statements a little later so it may be that the US-side fee shows up later?

Check with the seller that he ticked the right boxes to pay for all the fees. If he has, then yell at your bank. If he hasn't, sending a money order will in itself cost the buyer around $20 to get so I would think paypal would be the better option.

I can't see how an intermediary bank would "dip" in. That's outrageous. From my experience, banks often make mistakes and then tray to weasle their way out.

I also think direct bank transfers are probably one of the safest ways of getting your money (apart from hard cash!), despite these "fees" which may crop up.

Hope it works out.

[Quinny]

I paid for stuff in the U.S. before and had it sent to the UK, payment was made via bank transfer. My bank here in the UK is LloydsTSB, and they were able to tell me beforehand EXACTLY how much money I needed to pay and where it would be deducted. In the end, I paid X amount, the bank took their fee and the seller got the exact amount of money in his a/c. The scenario mentioned in the previous post sounds about right, as I do remember having to specify at which point fees should be taken.

Banks, you gotta love 'em! :mad:

Quinn.

[GaryNattrass]

I would also ask him for the $20 and explain that the deal was for the amount that you agreed and that you have not received the correct amount.

The $ is fluctuating a lot at the moment and I'm sure it's just a mis-understanding.

Personally I always allow a margin when doing transatlantic deals even with shops and such.

When I got my PRS artist I ended up sending too much money to Wildwood but give them their due they sent the guitars with some t-shirts to compensate.

As has been said life is too short to worry over $20 but I would imagine that the guy will feel guilty if he thinks you have been short changed on the deal.
We Brits are very polite when it comes to things like this and $20 is only around £11 about the price of 3 pints of beer in London.

[Chun13]

I would also ask him for the $20 and explain that the deal was for the amount that you agreed and that you have not received the correct amount.

The $ is fluctuating a lot at the moment and I'm sure it's just a mis-understanding.

Personally I always allow a margin when doing transatlantic deals even with shops and such.

When I got my PRS artist I ended up sending too much money to Wildwood but give them their due they sent the guitars with some t-shirts to compensate.

As has been said life is too short to worry over $20 but I would imagine that the guy will feel guilty if he thinks you have been short changed on the deal.
We Brits are very polite when it comes to things like this and $20 is only around £11 about the price of 3 pints of beer in London.
11 pounds for three pints ???? Damn, that's expensive !

[GaryNattrass]

Yes London IS expensive and they are just about to put the prices up again so it won't be long before it's £4 a pint in London.

[jas]

We Brits are very polite when it comes to things like this and $20 is only around £11 about the price of 3 pints of beer in London.
You obviously haven't dealt with the same Brits in the entertainment business that I have. Oh, they were polite alright, whilst relieving me of the shirt off my back. :eek:

That said, no one can fleece you like a Yank. ;)

-John

[Christopher Wade]

Thanks all. It's settled.

It wasn't the $20 per se, it was really the principle of the thing. If it was my responsibility to see that X amount ended up in someone else's account, and it ended up being short, I'd take it upon myself to even it up and then go after my bank to find out who "dipped their beak" (to use a Mafia term).

But it's settled peacefully.

Thanks again.