Rack system (or not?) any ideas?

[Syntec4]

Hello all,
I have been playing my CU22 through a GX700 rack unit into my JCM900 Dual reverb (50W) for what seems like years! (since '97 I think) I am looking for a change and thought it might be a good time to start putting together a rack system, possibly keeping the GX700 (which I like) for the FX. I have a reasonable budget say £1500 (about US $2500 I reckon)I've done the rounds of the shops and tried a few combo's but nothing jumps at me and says 'take me home'. I would like to have stereo when doing live stuff as well as when I'm recording but its not a 'must have' . Anyone out there use rack stuff that is willing to share their wisdom? I dont want a head/cab as they are too big to lug around and most dont sound too clever at home with low volume. I'm thinking maybe 2x12" cabs with a valve Power Amp of about 30w a side.

Help me spend some housekeeping! The wife will love you all.
Cheers
Lee
Manchester
:D

[Baba]

The best thing about a rack rig, is that everything is right there in one rack, preamp, power amp, and FX, and can be controlled with one pedal.


The worst thing about a rack (IMO), is that they just don't sound like what you have. It really depends on what you're doing, for low volume, house playing and recording, there's no need for a 100w head and 4x12. You also don't need to spend anywhere near the amount you have. You can get a Mesa 20/20 power amp on ebay for around $500 or less, and a preamp for about the same amount, or less, depending on what you buy.

I'm not sure if you're into modelers, but a PODXT Pro into a tube power amp would be a nice rig. It's stereo, has all kinds of outputs for recording, and with one pedalboard, can do alot of things.

[Syntec4]

ok. So far it looks like there is some for and against :)

The Roland GX700 I have at the moment has a preamp built in, although I never use it because I go into the front of the Marshall and use the preamp on that. If I bought a poweramp (valve) would you think I need a seperate rack preamp as well? Or would the preamp suitable in the Roland unit.
I already have a Roland FC200 Midi controller as well, which is why I thought it might be better to go with a rack this time and have it all controlled from one point.

Also- last night after I started this thread I went round to a friends house who also plays guitar. He has a Mode Four Marshall Stack, which sounded very nice without any other pedals etc. Do you think something like this might be less complicated and easier to setup. I notice it had outputs for recording, headphones and a Power Brake in the back so you could push the amp but at low volume. Only problem was the size, With a Head and 4x12 it was about 5ft tall! Looks very cool though ;)

Thanks for the advice

Lee.

[Lerxt]

Lee,

To rack or not: this has been the eternal question for me as well! But at this point I'm still using my rack setup: Digitech 2120 Artist tube/digital preamp, Peavey Classic 50/50 tube power amp, Marshall 1960A 4X12 cabinet (split to run in stereo).

The main advantages of my rack setup are 1) the huge variety of tones I can get, and 2) the ability to control everything from one footcontroller in a live setting. Let me describe my setup: my five basic tones are clean, dirty/clean (slight tube overdrive), classic crunch, heavy/modern crunch, and solo/lead. On each of these patches, I can kick in reverb, chorus, delay, wah, or volume boost. I also have the volume pedal on the footcontroller set to control the gain on the tube distorion: for example, on my dirty/clean patch I can use the pedal to raise the gain from 25% to 40% for a little more crunch. On top of all this, the Digitech offers almost every other effect you could want: flangers, phase shifters, pitch shifters, detuners, harmonizers, etc.

The main disadvantage of my setup is probably the steep learning curve. Although my setup now makes things very easy when playing live, it did take me a while to get to this point. I'm a computer programmer, and I still spent WEEKS learning the Digitech and getting everything programmed the way I wanted it. If you have problems programming your VCR, this probably isn't the kind of setup for you! :) It's also very easy to go down the wrong path when using the Digitech or similar all-in-one preamp. I finally started getting some good tones by avoiding the factory presets, focusing in on getting good basic tones (clean, dirty/clean, crunch), and then adding only minimal effects.

Another disadvantage to a rack setup is a certain loss of tone or "feel." Although I'm pretty happy with my live tone, I do sometimes wonder if I might be better off with a simple 3-channel tube head. I also think it would be kind of cool to have just a 4-button amp footswitch, but I'm afraid that I would really miss having the complete control of my sound that the 12-button footcontroller offers. One alternative I've considered is the Mesa Boogie Formula preamp, which is a single-space 3 channel tube preamp that might feel more "amp-like." But I'm afraid that the Formula's three channels wouldn't seem like enough, after the Digitech.

As far as running your Roland GX700 preamp directly into a tube power amp, you probably wouldn't be happy with this setup unless the GX700 has a tube preamp section. The only reason that my rack setup has a certain "tube amp" feel and tone is because the Digitech is built around a tube preamp section (2 12AX7s) and my power amp is all tube. You might consider geting a simple 2- or 3-channel tube preamp for your basic tone, and using the Roland for your digital effects.

I hope this helps! The really sad thing is, I'm still not sure myself about the rack approach, and am currently jonesing to try out a Mesa Boogie Lonestar head! :)

Jim

[Syntec4]

Thanks for the advice Jim, I made a bit of progress today after trying out some more kit.

My local music shop let me take my GX700 in and my guitar and try a few different setups. I found that no matter what we tried there was something 'not quite there' with the rack stuff. We tried the mesa valve preamp into a 50/50 power amp into Mesa and Marshall cabs with my GX700 for effects. Although it was WAY better than my current setup it just didn't have the right feel. I tried various Head and Combo's as well. The high end valve stuff definately has the edge over rack equipment. I liked a Soldano 50w 'Hot Rod+' head with matching 4x12 very much. I also liked the mesa nomad combo (100w) and the Dual Rectifier was very nice. The mesa F50 is also very nice with a very simple layout and some great tones in a small package. The thing I noticed with the Head units from all makers is that there is a much more direct feel between strings and sound. I've not really experienced that before, my old setup is definately not doing my CU22 any favours in the tone department. I think I have pretty much scrapped the idea of a rack system now, it's looking like I will go with a Soldano (i think) as the build quality also seemed to be just that bit better than the Mesa stuff and the range of tone available is more than I could ever need (until next time ;) )

Cheers
Lee.

[cr8z4life]

I went the other way, but the rack system I had was pretty good because it would take 3 amps to give me all the tones I had from this....Rack works great live because its an all in one....this works great

peavey 50/50 either 50 watts stereo or 100 watts
groove tubes trio clean, mean, scream
lexicon gt guitar processor (all the effects you could ever
use!)
Rockman midi for channel switching

[pjdude]

Hi Lee!!

First, let me say I've been a 'rack guy' for a loooong time! I used to use a Marshall JMP-1 for preamp duties, but finally sold that a few years ago, and went Mesa TriAxis....a move I've wanted to make for quite a few years. I can't say enough wonderful things about the Mesa TriAxis - just an amazing piece of gear!!!

These days, I run the TriAxis, Rocktron Intellifex in the loop, thru the fx return of a 50 watt Marshall Jubilee. I use an RFX MP128 midi pedal (phantom power - 7 pin midi - is AWESOME!!) which controls both units, which are connected through midi. From there, depending on the gig, I go thru either a homebrew 2x12 cab with V30s or a recently acquired Crate VC 4x12 cab also with V30s.

I'm a BIG fan of rack gear for many of the same reasons Lerxt gave. I also very much ike the idea of being able to do *any* gig (rock, country, pop, dance, etc.) with just this rig. Versatality is the name of the game with me, and the rack rig does it for me in a big way! Another great plus is the ability to store volume levels - a wonderful deterrent to the inattentive sound dood!

True, the 'tone journey' can be a long and tedious one, but also quite satisfying! It took me some time playing with different tubes (speakers, ect.) to get me to the level of tonal satisfaction I'm at right now, but you might end up going the same route with *any* tube amp rig.

For me, since I play all kinds of gigs, the crux of the biscuit is all about having one rig that can do it all. Unless I'm missing something, I've not yet found an amp that can do what my rack can do............and with one foot controller too!

Good luck in your search, Lee! I hope this helps!