Software and Sound Card opinions wanted

[MVG]

Yep, I'm upgrading my little home studio. I've got an idea of what I'm after but thought I'd solicit opinions from you recording doyens as well.

My present system is jurassic: Gateway P2, 450 mghz, although I like my sound card - M Audio 2496. Software is old Cubase VSX. I will be running guitar through a POD and mics (KSM 32 & 57) through a Focusrite Penta Pre. I will be recording original material, basic pop/rock songs with geetar, bass, drums, keyboards, and layered vocals. I want to be able to double or triple track things like guitar and vocals. MIDI of course.

I'm not interested in a workstation (although the Digi002 looks cool). I'll do it all on the PC, which will be 2.8 gig Windows XP Pro w/ two hard drives. I've got the Penta and Soundforge for finalizing/mastering.

What recording software should I get? I thought Cubase was OK although it didn't have enough tracks for what I ended up wanting to do. I've also played around with Cakewalk but not since 1999. Should I go with the new Cubase? Cakewalk? How 'bout Pro Tools?

What software sounds best?

And should I upgrade my sound card? I think the M Audio is pretty nice, especially since its already paid for, but wadda I know?

Thanks for all advice and comments.

[OneMileWish]

How much are you looking to spend?

[MVG]

I'd like to keep it at $500.00 or less.

[Phil Macino]

Given the your requirements and what you are looking to do...I would go with Cubase SL 2.0. It has many of the same features as Cubase SX 2.0...and shares the important ones...Audio Engine, MIDI, etc...And it is $300.

I recently converted from Sonar Producer 3.1.1 to Cubase SX 2.0 mid project and have zero regrets. My recording life has now become pleasurable. I'm using SX on a PC with a Motu 828mkII and also have a M-Audio 2496 (P4 3.2Ghz HT with 2 GB Dual Channel DDR, 10k 74 GB WD Raptor SATA drives "x2", and 7200 250 GB Hitachi SATA drives "x2" ). I also use it with a Dell Latitude D600 Notebook, 1.8 Ghz P4M, 1 GB DDR, and a external 7200rpm Firewire drive. I'm running Windows XP on both boxes and zero hiccups on either box.

IMO, Protools is okay on the PC, but in the price range you are looking at, it will be a USB flavor, which will limit your high bit rate/high sample rate success. Secondly, You can't use Protools without the hardware. You already have superior hardware in the 2496 and penta pre.

Finally, Protools LE was written for Mac and Digidesign uses a Mac emulator to get it to run on PC, rather than re-writing and compiling native x86 code. I had a M-Box with Protools LE 6.2.2. for about 3 days before returing it.

[MVG]

Thanks guys. You both get a free copy of the CD (whenever I get it finished that is...) I was leaning towards Steinberg to begin with. I've never had any trouble with my old VST software, although my slow PC caused some awful latency problems, not to mention crashing mid stream once in a while.

Phil: You recommended SL for cost reasons. I've found SX 2.0 for about $550 at some places. If you have time, could you tell me if you think the difference 'tween SL and SX is worth the extra couple hundred? Do you get more tracks, more FX, more virtual instruments or what with SX? Do you think its worth the extra $200 for what you get?

Thanks again,

Mark

[Phil Macino]

Hey Mark,

Sorry for the delay. I wanted to find a good factual data sheet for you. The short answer is "it depends". SX will give you features that some would consider overkill and that others would consider necessary. Here is a pdf that has all of the differences (page 8).

ftp://ftp.pinnaclesys.com/Steinberg/download/Documents/Cubase_SX_2/English/CubaseSXSL2_Brochure_GB_2031K.pdf

Unless you really need the ability to score, if you need more than 128 physical inputs, you need more than 16 VST instruments, or you need to mix in surround sound, then SL will probably do just fine. It really is a box of tools, and some of them most people won't need.

You do get a couple of more plugins with SX over SL...$200 worth, don't think so. Mostly because Cubase's plugins are okay, but of course 3rd party ones will be nicer IE Waves (Renaissance Maxx would be good) , a Universal Audio UAD-1 (requires a free PCI slot), etc..Personally I think Cakewalk's Sonar 3 Producer has the best shipping/bundled plugins.

Whatever your decision, make sure you get some related courseware. These applications are very powerful and some, like Cubase, really require you to think like a studio engineer rather than a PC power user.

[Aldwyn]

Phil,

Why did you switch from Sonar to Cubase?

I used Cubase back in the mid 90s, and switched to Cakewalk back then. Upgraded to Sonar, and have continued to do so. Just upgraded from Studio to Producer, actually.

Peace,
Aldwyn

[Phil Macino]

Phil,

Why did you switch from Sonar to Cubase?

I used Cubase back in the mid 90s, and switched to Cakewalk back then. Upgraded to Sonar, and have continued to do so. Just upgraded from Studio to Producer, actually.

Peace,
AldwynI was having some reliability issues while my band was tracking our demo (will still are). For some reason my MOTU 828mkII and Sonar 3 Producer would just not talk to each other correctly every now and then. I would get corrupted tracks, missing audio, the audio engine would just stop and or freeze etc..I tried a myriad of driver combinations bit rates etc over the course of about 6 weeks and eventually reached wits end as it was delaying our tracking.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact that MOTU developed their driver stack with ASIO/2 as a priority and WDM as necessary component for compatibity, whereas, Sonar has built it's engine around WDM, and recently added ASIO support. Of course, Cubase works with ASIO natively, as it was developed as a spec by Steinberg.

I haven't had one glitch or hiccup with Cubase SX2 in about 3 weeks now.

[Aldwyn]

I was having some reliability issues while my band was tracking our demo (will still are). For some reason my MOTU 828mkII and Sonar 3 Producer would just not talk to each other correctly every now and then. I would get corrupted tracks, missing audio, the audio engine would just stop and or freeze etc..I tried a myriad of driver combinations bit rates etc over the course of about 6 weeks and eventually reached wits end as it was delaying our tracking.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact that MOTU developed their driver stack with ASIO/2 as a priority and WDM as necessary component for compatibity, whereas, Sonar has built it's engine around WDM, and recently added ASIO support. Of course, Cubase works with ASIO natively, as it was developed as a spec by Steinberg.

I haven't had one glitch or hiccup with Cubase SX2 in about 3 weeks now.
Rock on! :dude:

Peace,
Aldwyn

[MickYoumans]

I'm another Cakewalk Sonar Producer user here. It does any and everything I need it to do. I have a Event EZBus soundcard/mixer/DAW controller that I use with it. My drummer has a Tascam 1884 that is REALLY neat. The EZBus is just under $600 and the Tascam is around $1300. To me the Sonar and Tascam 1884 combo is one of the best home studio deals out there for $1600 if you can put that much into it. The Tascam can even be expanded if you need more sliders for mixing and have the extra money. If $1600 is beyond your budget, $900 for Sonar and the EZBus is really a great bang-for-the-buck if don't need to record more than two channels at the time. The Tascam will record 8 channels at the time. Go luck with your gear quest!

[MVG]

And thanks again guys. All advice is greatly apprecieted.

Mark