Advantages of Phase II's?

[bleujazz3]

Can anyone tell me the the advantages of the Phase II's vs. other style tuners? I can relate to the 14:1 ratio which provides more consistent and precise tuning, but compared to, say, Grovers, or Waverly's, is there any benefit that makes the Phase II's more desireable?

I am aware that PRSH designed these tuners as his own in order to patent them for the purpose of marketing them for his guitars.

Does anyone have any preferences of one over another?

I guess I could cap things off by doing more research, but I thought I'd let someone else finish the topic.

:)

[MoJo JoJoe]

For me, the only advantage of Phase II's over original winged tuners is that fewer people have problems learning to re-string them. IMHO the original winged tuners are a masterstroke of design and efficiency. Once you know how to get them strung-up nothing is quicker or easier.

[Crunchyriff]

IMHO the original winged tuners are a masterstroke of design and efficiency. Once you know how to get them strung-up nothing is quicker or easier.
Boy HOWDY! I agree 100%.

[ChrisCst22]

This is purely speculation and has not been confirmed in anyway, but I thought PRS didn't want to use Eric Pritchards design patent anymore. I think Eric was getting a decent cut from each guitar using his tuners, and for further cost-saving(and down the line, price-saving) they decided to re-design and patent their own tuners.

ONCE AGAIN PLEASE, SPECULATION 100%!!

I like how simpler the Phase II's are, I know the winged tuners were a bit of a hassle to a novice PRS owner. But at the same time Phase I tuners construction feel is far beefier than the Phase II's. That is a good thing in one aspect, and could be a bad thing in another. If it is ever proven that the heavier the tuners, the less sustain acheived.

[diegs]

I have a 1997 CE with what I assume are the "old" tuners. I agree that they're easy to string up (except that sometimes the lighter gauges don't "catch" and I have to redo them). However, they are not smooth and I think that the ratio is much too quick for precise tuning.

How are the Phase IIs different? I assume that, like all other tuners, they won't fit on my guitar without modifications?

[Bruce O'Donnell]

This is purely speculation and has not been confirmed in anyway, but I thought PRS didn't want to use Eric Pritchards design patent anymore. I think Eric was getting a decent cut from each guitar using his tuners, and for further cost-saving(and down the line, price-saving) they decided to re-design and patent their own tuners.

ONCE AGAIN PLEASE, SPECULATION 100%!!I don't think Paul minded paying EKP royalties for the winged tuner design, alot of people just didn't like them and they were significantly heavier. The Phase II was actually the original design that Paul used on the pre-factory and Santana guitar. Checkout the pics of the pre-factory guitars in the PRS Book. It's a lighter tuner, and there's no learning curve like there is for the winged tuners, making them a no-brainer for even the most mechanically challenged guitarist. The winged are a snap once you figure them out, but you can't get much simpler than the Phase II design.

[Dancing Frog]

The story I heard from Brian Meader at WMC was that the phase II's were designed the basis of purely tone by PRSH. According to the source, PRSH was playing around with a set of tuners and removed the nut that secures the bushing through the headstock. He found the tone was significantly better without headstock being pinched and decided to built a new design around that concept. Of course, this is just heresay.

[MoJo JoJoe]

The story I heard from Brian Meader at WMC was that the phase II's were designed the basis of purely tone by PRSH. According to the source, PRSH was playing around with a set of tuners and removed the nut that secures the bushing through the headstock. He found the tone was significantly better without headstock being pinched and decided to built a new design around that concept. Of course, this is just heresay.
I wonder if you haven't confused PhaseII tuners with tuners installed with a grommet (McCarty and Modern Eagle/513)? ME/513 uses PhaseII tuners with a grommet instead of a nut.

[Jo]

I find that changing strings with the Phase II's is a lot easier/faster than with the older winged counterparts, plus I need a pair of pliers to pull the string taught in the winged tuners.

I have a 1997 CE with what I assume are the "old" tuners. I agree that they're easy to string up (except that sometimes the lighter gauges don't "catch" and I have to redo them). However, they are not smooth and I think that the ratio is much too quick for precise tuning.

How are the Phase IIs different? I assume that, like all other tuners, they won't fit on my guitar without modifications?

The Phase II's will fit on any PRS which uses the later winged tuners that do not share the D&G set screw. So basically from around 1997 or so you can change tuners with absolutely no modifications. I've changed all my winged tuners to the PII's except on my '96 CE.

[Dancing Frog]

I wonder if you haven't confused PhaseII tuners with tuners installed with a grommet (McCarty and Modern Eagle/513)? ME/513 uses PhaseII tuners with a grommet instead of a nut.Well, he was talking regards to the 513 at the time, so yes I could be confused. I thought the grommet was on all Phase II's.

[Greg Jones]

I have a 1997 CE with what I assume are the "old" tuners. I agree that they're easy to string up (except that sometimes the lighter gauges don't "catch" and I have to redo them). However, they are not smooth and I think that the ratio is much too quick for precise tuning.

How are the Phase IIs different? I assume that, like all other tuners, they won't fit on my guitar without modifications?This was my opinion when I owned a '97 CE myself.

[bleujazz3]

Wow,

These responses are more than I could have bargained for. I'm extremely grateful for the wealth of knowledge BaMmers provide. When I asked for a little, man, did I get a lot in return! I appreciate the time you guys have taken to answer, although I was never sure of the reason Phase II's replaced the winged tuners in the first place.

Gleaning the information, I now understand that Phase II's replaced the winged tuners because of a mass and weight problem, contributing to a redesign made by PRSH for distribution of weight sake. Winged tuners, conversely, were not as well received by the general public. The average joe could more readily relate to the Phase II's.

Modifying your PRS to accept Phase II's is more difficult than it may seem. Expansion of the tuning post hole is required, and that in itself can be done, but holding out for Phase II's when you already have a working system does not mean you have to switch.

If you have winged tuners, consider keeping them, and when you're planning on purchasing a new PRS you'll appreciate the difference. Don't sell that '86 though. It'll buy your next home improvement project and then some if needs be. :cool:

[MoJo JoJoe]

...
Modifying your PRS to accept Phase II's is more difficult than it may seem. Expansion of the tuning post hole is required, ...
Not as far as I'm concerned. There are 2 PhaseII type tuners. One requiring a nut (front) and 1 screw (rear) to hold it onto the headstock. The other (used in ME/513) requires a grommet (front) and 2 screws (rear) to hold it onto the headstock. If you are replacing winged tuners, you can use the former with no mods. Someone please tell me if I've got it wrong.

...I now understand that Phase II's replaced the winged tuners because of a mass and weight problem, contributing to a redesign made by PRSH for distribution of weight sake...
I think this is speculation only.

[Jo]

A re-quote from post #9 above.

The Phase II's will fit on any PRS which uses the later winged tuners that do not share the D&G set screw. So basically from around 1997 or so you can change tuners with absolutely no modifications. I've changed all my winged tuners to the PII's except on my '96 CE.

[diegs]

A re-quote from post #9 above.

Of course, I have the shared D and G screw :(

[diegs]

Alright, I want to change these darn things out. What does it entail? Which should I choose for the least work/least damage/maximum benefit?

[Rabidhamster]

Id like to know too. Surely there is some sort of drop in replacement so you dont have to drill?

[Jo]

Why not try just putting the Phase II's in with out the screw in the back. I know a couple of people did that with the SE's and had no problems with the tuners. I'm often tempted to try it with my CE.

[Chiba]

Interesting thread.

I may be the only person around that actually prefers the winged tuners to the Phase II's. Yes, the P2's are *easier* to string up. Not an issue for me.

I dislike the increased tension across the nut afforded by the P2's. The hole you put the string through is closer to the headstock than the slot in the winged tuners, and I can feel a difference. Call me crazy, but I can, and I don't like it.

I even retrofitted winged tuners onto my SC semi-hollow, which came with P2's, and it's the 2nd guitar I've done that to. As long as I can keep finding wingers, I'll keep making that mod.

One thing with my SCSH, I noticed that with the winged tuners on it, the guitar's unplugged volume increased slightly, and I'd swear there's a tad more sustain... but y'all probably won't believe that! :)

--chiba

[Jo]

Chiba, we'll have to start swapping tuners in future. You can have my wings and I'll take your PII's.

[Chiba]

Done!! :dude:

--chiba