Syd Barrett's guitar playing

[PaulEdWagemann]

I would like to know what other guitar players think of Barrett's guitar playing...also if anyone could give me their opinion of Sonic Youth's guitar playing...thanx...

[Rock Johnson]

P.S. The prior response is not helpful under any circumstances.My apologies. It was meant as a joke - obviously wasn't a very good one. Sorry.

[Jon Silberman]

Thanks and please accept my apologies, too, for being too serious-minded on a hectic Thursday morning. :o :)

[signed,D.C.]

Huge Syd fan,here.. *Piper at the Gates..* has been hugely influential to me
since I first heard it freshman year in high school(1982)

Sonic Youth I heard around '87- a college friend turned me onto them, who,
coincidentally, hailed from Chicago(where you are) but was attending
Drake Univ(in Dsm,IA where I was born/raised).

Expressway to your skull made a big impression on me; Brother James,etc

Thurston and Lee also showed me the many possibilties of alternate tunings
drones,feedback, and sonic mayhem .

They have an amazing body of work over 20+ years .

[PaulEdWagemann]

Huge Syd fan,here.. *Piper at the Gates..* has been hugely influential to me
since I first heard it freshman year in high school(1982)

Sonic Youth I heard around '87- a college friend turned me onto them, who,
coincidentally, hailed from Chicago(where you are) but was attending
Drake Univ(in Dsm,IA where I was born/raised).

Expressway to your skull made a big impression on me; Brother James,etc

Thurston and Lee also showed me the many possibilties of alternate tunings
drones,feedback, and sonic mayhem .

They have an amazing body of work over 20+ years .
Have you listened to any of Barrett's solo stuff? Madcap Laughs, Barrett, Opel? There's a quality to his guitar playing that I really like, its sorta reminds me of Woody Guthrie's playing in that it is eratic yet surprising melodic at the same time--but the tone of his guitar is much different of course.

[signed,D.C.]

Haven't heard Madcap, or Barrett in years, haven't, yet, heard Opel
Syd was, as I'm sure you're aware, a big influence on Robyn Hitchcock's
bent.

On a similiar(?) note: did you have info on a fund for Arthur Lee ?
I missed probably the last opportunity to see him perform in '05

He performed local to me and I was only aware a few weeks after;
the majority of the LOVE shows were,abroad.

[PaulEdWagemann]

Haven't heard Madcap, or Barrett in years, haven't, yet, heard Opel
Syd was, as I'm sure you're aware, a big influence on Robyn Hitchcock's
bent.

On a similiar(?) note: did you have info on a fund for Arthur Lee ?
I missed probably the last opportunity to see him perform in '05

He performed local to me and I was only aware a few weeks after;
the majority of the LOVE shows were,abroad.
Arthur Lee, yeah a friend of mine donated and gave the info to me--but it would take me a while to find where i have it stored...

...if you havent heard Opel, its IMO weaker than Barrett and much weaker than Madcap Laughs. It does have some moments though--especially if you are into Barrett...

I know he's become a poster boy for Acid Casualty (somewhat similar to Arther Lee) but I think that term in some respects is an oxymoron. I mean, perhaps if he never did acid in the first place then his mind never would have traveled to the places that allowed it to create such beautiful music in the first place. I mean which is better? To produce a small catalog of intensely great material or a large catalog of run-of-the-mill same old same old? I dont know--its just speculation on my part, but I think his work is genius.

[signed,D.C.]

I agree, and I would add Roky Erickson to that list(what list ?!?!), as well .

Ever read Mike Randle's(Baby Lemonade/LOVE) blog/diaries ?

An entertaining read, if you have some time.

[PaulEdWagemann]

I agree, and I would add Roky Erickson to that list(what list ?!?!), as well .

Ever read Mike Randle's(Baby Lemonade/LOVE) blog/diaries ?

An entertaining read, if you have some time.Thanks, I'll search to see if I can find it...

[george4908]

>>I mean, perhaps if he never did acid in the first place then his mind never would have traveled to the places that allowed it to create such beautiful music in the first place. I mean which is better? To produce a small catalog of intensely great material or a large catalog of run-of-the-mill same old same old? I dont know--its just speculation on my part, but I think his work is genius.

For us listeners, sure, it's easy to say how great it is that he created this music, but if the cost was his brain, then sorry, in my book it wasn't worth it. I knew a few too many acid casualties back in the day. Not that they created great works of art, or anything else that I know of, but either way the impact is just sad.

As for his playing, I would describe it as crude, but effective. I think songwriting was his real strength. Not familiar with his later stuff, though.

[rwe333]

For us listeners, sure, it's easy to say how great it is that he created this music, but if the cost was his brain, then sorry, in my book it wasn't worth it. I knew a few too many acid casualties back in the day. Not that they created great works of art, or anything else that I know of, but either way the impact is just sad.

As for his playing, I would describe it as crude, but effective. I think songwriting was his real strength. Not familiar with his later stuff, though.Yes - no doubt there's some promising music, but fact is Syd is a very sick man who's (last I heard) mother has cared for him for decades - not a heroic image, a waste and tragedy.
Sonic Youth is quite the opposite - these are educated cats who know what they're doing and are in control.
Hupe props to Barrett, Moore, Renaldo, etc...

[signed,D.C.]

Yes - no doubt there's some promising music, but fact is Syd is a very sick man who's (last I heard) mother has cared for him for decades - not a heroic image, a waste and tragedy.
Sonic Youth is quite the opposite - these are educated cats who know what they're doing and are in control.
Hupe props to Barrett, Moore, Renaldo, etc...
No one's asserting Syd as a hero.

His influence and impact is lasting.

The acid casualty thing has been overstated, by the writers.

Syd was already, likely, mentally imbalanced, the drugs exacerbated an
inherent problem; not unlike Jaco Pastorius ?

Get it,now ?

[rwe333]

No one's asserting Syd as a hero.

His influence and impact is lasting.

The acid casualty thing has been overstated, by the writers.

Syd was already, likely, mentally imbalanced, the drugs exacerbated an
inherent problem; not unlike Jaco Pastorius ?

Get it,now ?Where the hell is your combative attitude coming from? Try re-reading my post, 'kay?
Nothing in my post implies your reaction (didn't call him a hero, didn't say he wasn't influential, didn't say he wasn't already unstable... the mention of Syd being cared for by his mom came from Dave Gilmour article in GP).
Trust me - I most certainly get it (and have respect for SB's talent).

[PaulEdWagemann]

I dont know--I cant judge Syd's life as being a success or failure. If he's living with his mom and he's happy, then who am I to judge--you know?

Also I've taken a lot of LSD in my life (from the ages of 18-22 mostly) and it changed my entire perspective. I was experimenting with a lot of mind expansion at the time and I look back at it as a neccessary part of my overall personal growth and evolution. I'm not saying the same thing applies to Syd, but I do see how his LSD use could be an overall postive for his life and not a negative. From what I've heard he lives a fairly happy life, he gardens, goes into town for a pint on a regular basis--its not like hes in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket and drooling all over himself...

[rwe333]

I dont know--I cant judge Syd's life as being a success or failure. If he's living with his mom and he's happy, then who am I to judge--you know?
[snip]...but I do see how his LSD use could be an overall postive for his life and not a negative. From what I've heard he lives a fairly happy life, he gardens, goes into town for a pint on a regular basis--its not like hes in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket and drooling all over himself...I certainly hope that's the case, and - you're right - it's not up to us to judge his life. But it's a shame to any fan of Barrett's work that his music career was so brief (yes, a selfish attitude).

[signed,D.C.]

Where the hell is your combative attitude coming from? Try re-reading my post, 'kay?
Nothing in my post implies your reaction (didn't call him a hero, didn't say he wasn't influential, didn't say he wasn't already unstable... the mention of Syd being cared for by his mom came from Dave Gilmour article in GP).
Trust me - I most certainly get it (and have respect for SB's talent).
Wayne, you really need to calm it down, with the profanity, and the projecting
combative attitudes, and then, ironically, coming in with both barrels blazing.

Re-read your own post.

You say two different things, one of which :

Yes - no doubt there's some promising music, but fact is Syd is a very sick man who's (last I heard) mother has cared for him for decades - not a heroic image, a waste and tragedy
Like I said, no one is suggesting he is heroic or a hero, or his plight casts
a heroic image.

I did note you give him 'huge props', though, but, even, still the two statements
seemed to be in conflict.

I just wanted to make sure you understood Syd was already suffering from
undiagnosed mental illness, and used Jaco as an example.

[rwe333]

Wayne, you really need to calm it down, with the profanity, and the projecting
combative attitudes, and then, ironically, coming in with both barrels blazing.

Re-read your own post.

You say two different things, one of which :

Like I said, no one is suggesting he is heroic or a hero, or his plight casts
a heroic image.

I did note you give him 'huge props', though, but, even, still the two statements
seemed to be in conflict.

I just wanted to make sure you understood Syd was already suffering from
undiagnosed mental illness, and used Jaco as an example.Well, I guess while it appears we agree to disagree, we're pretty much on the same page w/ all this... Your Jaco point was a good one and I never thought LSD in-and-of-itself caused the public withdrawal. If my reaction was OTT, it was due to the "Get it, now?" comment which I took as a put-down/insult (still do). And while I did mention a 'heroic image', I wasn't claiming the thread posters were worshipping SB. As for the 'sick man', stuff - well - all we've got is what's written out there... As hinted at in my last post, I hope he's healthy/happy (and I like his work - esp. the solo discs)...

[PaulEdWagemann]

I've always wondered about the relationship between LSD and music. And the way that LSD/mushrooms affected the entire psychedilic sound of the late 60's. Brian Wilson, Lennon, Barrett all seem to have had their writing affected by it. I wonder if they heard a riff or a melody or a sound in their head and then tried to reproduce it, or whether they were messing around with thier instruments in a hallucination like trance and spontaneosly created things--or a little bit of both...
Some might disagree with me on this point--that Lennon didnt seem to go nuts by taking LSD, eventhough he had a very chaotic life. So if Barrett did go a little batty, like Brian Wilson, it could be that they had a predisposition for mental health issues anyway(like DC mentions). Roky Erickson, I don't know enough about to include him in this conversation--just a few mentions of him here and there in things I've read over the years...

[signed,D.C.]

Paul, Brian and Syd were both people with undiagnosed mental health issues,
who unfortunately collided with the powerful substances, of the era.

The LSD of the period, as you've no doubt read, was particularly potent, and
there was a lot of heavy experimenting going, on; as has been documented,well.

How much did the drugs inspire the art ?

Who can say ?

Brian Wilson and Syd were both innately gifted creative people as is; already
in touch with their creative wellsprings, so it'd be somewhat futile to try and
measure the drugs' impact, creatively speaking on their music.

David Gilmour a childhood friend describes Syd as an amazingly charismatic person,
even from early childhood, who had the entire village, where he grew up under
his spell; young and old.

A very gregarious, whimsical child(probably often in a state of mania)he was,
and grew into an equally magnetic young man before taking the tumble with
drugs . His personality drew everyone around him, to him like moths to flame.

Hendrix's blistering performance at the Monterey Pop Fest was rendered under
the heavy influence of LSD.

Hendrix, another natural, was likely enhanced by psychedlics, but I would
hesitate to give away too much credit to any of these icons use of drugs.

That's just me personally, though, so YMMV.

Roky Erickson was incarcerated for drug possesion, and also locked up in
mental institutions for a number of years, but remained extremely prolific
during those times, penning dozens of songs.

His problems with law enforement and the courts, being mainly, a part of
the politics of the 60s and don't really suggest he needed to be there;
I haven't found any evidence of any crimes, or salacious antics on his
part.

Some have labeled him a drug casualty, but many who've been around him
found him remarkably lucid(in his own unique way, and it lends some doubts
re: his fabled rep as a stark raving drugged-out loony.

You should check out Roky with the 13th Floor elevators if you get the chance.

[dougb415]

I dont know--I cant judge Syd's life as being a success or failure. If he's living with his mom and he's happy, then who am I to judge--you know?
From what I've heard and read, happiness is not in the cards for Syd. It's more a thing of - as long as he's not reminded of his past, then he's okay. He looks nothing like the Syd of old; he's bald, fat, doesn't talk, and mainly works on his garden at his mother's house.

[jeffhef]

I've always wondered about the relationship between LSD and music. And the way that LSD/mushrooms affected the entire psychedilic sound of the late 60's. Brian Wilson, Lennon, Barrett all seem to have had their writing affected by it. I wonder if they heard a riff or a melody or a sound in their head and then tried to reproduce it, or whether they were messing around with thier instruments in a hallucination like trance and spontaneosly created things--or a little bit of both...
Some might disagree with me on this point--that Lennon didnt seem to go nuts by taking LSD, eventhough he had a very chaotic life. So if Barrett did go a little batty, like Brian Wilson, it could be that they had a predisposition for mental health issues anyway(like DC mentions). Roky Erickson, I don't know enough about to include him in this conversation--just a few mentions of him here and there in things I've read over the years...I'm inclined to agree with someone who earlier posted that Syd most likely had problems before taking acid. I used to keep count of the hits I'd taken. At 200 I stopped counting. Based on my experience acid alone is unlikely to make a stable person unstable. I found that I could easily become depressed or paranoid if I allowed myself to go that route. Instead...I understood that I was using a mind altering drug and chose to keep my mood positive.

However, I CAN see how someone who was unstable could quite possibly get pretty messed up by the experience. More than once I spent an entire trip keeping a friend calm. On the other hand...I spent many with what we referred to as "permagrin". That smile that eventually makes your cheeks cramp. If you've tripped you know what I mean.

I'm not glorifying the drug. However, I don't think the drug alone could cause a stable person to lose it.

And...everytime I tried to play guitar when I was tripping the thing felt foreign to me. I never could play when I was stoned. Strange...

jeffhef

[wombat66]

I would like to know what other guitar players think of Barrett's guitar playing...also if anyone could give me their opinion of Sonic Youth's guitar playing...thanx...
I was just watching the Lets All Make Love In London thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmJVy7WqkaA

Its a big frustrating montage of swinging london circa 66-67, the 14 Hour Technicolor Dream be-in, and a young Pink Floyd live and in the studio doing an early take of Interstellar Overdrive. The studio stuff is cool, very "experimental" and amateur in a good way. Syd sometimes heading towards Derek Bailey territory. Very sonic. Love the way he uses delay... reminds me of Lee Renaldo at times.

http://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/gallery/d/3714-2/aaf.jpg
http://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/gallery/d/3711-2/aae.jpg
http://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/gallery/d/3708-2/aaa.jpg

Syd looking really young, intense but not burnt out; his eye haven't sunk into his head yet.

But I've always liked Syd. And Sonic Youth, but thats a whole other subject.