Joe Barden back in business??

[Unburst]

Looks that way...


http://www.joebarden.com/main.php

[Andrew]

Wow, cool! Nice new site, too.

[theFaf]

This IS good news!

[Cheebatone]

A Tele set went for $600 on ebay a few days ago. Ouch.

[Jon Silberman]

Interestingly, I've had several different players tell me how different the earliest Bardens sound versus the latest ones. At first, I thought this was must more snake oil but then someone (a knowledgeable acquaintance) hypothesized that what's changed is Barden's hearing and that the tone changes in the PUPs over time actually reflect Barden revoicing his PUPs to adjust for his high-end hearing loss. I.e., to Barden, the newer PUPs sound the same as they ever did, to others, they're treblier/shriller.

All I can add is that I had a set of Bardens once in my own Tele. With 500K pots they sheared your head off. With 250K pots, they were, to my ears, to put it positively, accurate; to put it negatively, sterile.

Definitely an preferrred and/or acquired taste. I always end by noting how perfect and authentic Bill Kirchen sounds with his (relatively earlier vintage) Bardens so I know my inability to bond with the set I used to have is about me primarily rather than the PUPs.

[mprvise]

I've been playing my early Danny Gatton sig Tele at the house for the past week or so. While I agree that the Bardens are among the brightest pickups I've ever played, they sound awesome to my ears once some compensating tweeks are done (amp, guitar tone, etc.). Good to see he's back in business. :cool:

[MikeyG]

Interestingly, I've had several different players tell me how different the earliest Bardens sound versus the latest ones. At first, I thought this was must more snake oil but then someone (a knowledgeable acquaintance) hypothesized that what's changed is Barden's hearing and that the tone changes in the PUPs over time actually reflect Barden revoicing his PUPs to adjust for his high-end hearing loss. I.e., to Barden, the newer PUPs sound the same as they ever did, to others, they're treblier/shriller.

All I can add is that I had a set of Bardens once in my own Tele. With 500K pots they sheared your head off. With 250K pots, they were, to my ears, to put it positively, accurate; to put it negatively, sterile.

Definitely an preferrred and/or acquired taste. I always end by noting how perfect and authentic Bill Kirchen sounds with his (relatively earlier vintage) Bardens so I know my inability to bond with the set I used to have is about me primarily rather than the PUPs.
+1000 ... brightest pickups on the planet .... at least of the ones I've tried...

[Jerrod]

I have a Gatton Tele (1994 I think) also. Judicious use of the tone control makes it a GREAT guitar. Leaving the tone dimed makes it a laser-beam.

[mightyguru]

The originals are better...:p ;) :rolleyes:

[sanhozay]

I never thought Bardens sounded shrill. Clear and strident and very sensitive to height adjustment - and pick attack. A little too immediate sounding and powerful for my clammy chops. Great pickups when they are priced right.

[sanhozay]

Here's a post that I clipped from the Tele page -

Question: Joe-I've heard a lot of stories that the double pickups you produced in the late 80s - early 90s were wound hotter than the current Barden offering. I have a set I bought from you in 91 or 92 in my Thinline, and a set in my 3/94 Gatton Signature Tele. Are the pickups you now produce the same? If not, is the hotter wind an option?Thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Barden: Indeed they were, about 10% more turns, which makes a big difference in my pickups. The old ones had considerably less twang and clarity, they were a lot darker and had a good bit more output and punch (like anyone needed more of that from me!). Anyway, in '91 Eric Johnson was kind enough to try my pickups in a Strat, which were wound progressively more from neck to bridge, to compensate for the decreasing amout of string vibration area (or intensity, if you prefer). In the course of playing, Eric noticed this difference immediately, asked me about it, and I confirmed that, yes, that was what I was doing. He then proceeded to play some really interesting runs that allowed him to show me that as he went through the pickup selections, from neck to bridge, the tone was actually getting darker, not brighter. He then told me that, yeah, it's cool that with the different windings you can keep the pickups all at similar heights, but why would that be important? He said that he really didn't care about high or low pickup heights, without having to go to extremes anyway, but that I should remember that the tone is really the only important issue. He then said that he loved the sound of the neck pickup, and would really love to hear the guitar with the middle and bridge pickups wound just like the neck. So, I hauled ass home and made a middle and a bridge pickup wound just like the neck pickup, and the next day drove to PA to catch him at the next gig on the tour. He was really busy, but he said he would play the guitar for just a couple of minutes, but only out of courtesy, because he knew I had driven almost three hours. Well, 20 minutes of playing later the whole crew and sound man and everyone else was standing around, watching Eric just having a blast playing the new setup, with me beaming and feeling like I had just conqured the world! As we were parting company a few minutes later, he shook my hand and said, "Congatulations, Joe! I never thought that anyone would ever be able to make a humbucker that really sounds like a single coil. If I was more accustomed to this guitar, I could start gigging with this setup right now!" That's as great a compliment as I could possibly dream of, I gotta say. Anyway, this is the long way of saying that by getting rejected (kindly) by Eric many times, and by getting educated more and more each time, I elected to redo the recipie of all the pickups, and this was one of the best moves I have ever made. Danny didn't like the new pickups at first, because they didn't distort the preamp in his amp enough for the "organ shuffle" tone he used (switch in the middle, volume all the way up, tone with a .05uf all the way down, Vibrato Intensity way up, Speed set for the beat of the tune, unless, of course, we actually had the Leslies!; phrase your licks, and use the same chord inversions, as Jimmy Smith, Groove Holmes, Jack McDuff, etc.). In the final analysis, Dan found he needed both types of pickups, one for the organ shuffle stuff, and the other for what he called "the real stringy, stock-sounding, James Burton stuff". A last detail: the first 25 sets of pickups that I sent to Fender for the first 25 DG Models were wound the old way; since then, everything has been the new way. Fender did not use the pickups in order though: I have defintely seen early DG Teles with one old and one new, either position, and guitars with old, 1st batch pickups being shipped long after several orders of the new style pickups had been receiver by Fender!

P.S. Yes, I'll use the old wind if you ask for it, but remember my description above, because there's no returns due to tone complaints on these special pickups. If you want to check your pickups, the DC resistance of the whole pickup (out of circuit!) should be 4000-4200 ohms on the new ones, and closer to 5000 ohms or more on the old ones. I hope all this helps, JB

P.S.S. Eric Johnson has never used any of my equipment, he prefers what he has already. I will be, however, be eternally grateful for all the time he spent with me, and all of his incredibly construtive criticism.

[mprvise]

Thanks man! Good info there.

[Joe Perry]

I have a Gatton Tele (1994 I think) also. Judicious use of the tone control makes it a GREAT guitar. Leaving the tone dimed makes it a laser-beam.
Jerrod,
I've been wanting to contact you. I was wondering if you still had the Gatton? I miss that guitar.

You definately need to work those tone controls with Bardens to get the most out of them. My friend uses them in his '67 Tele (alder/rosewood) and they sound awesome. I also agree with Jon that they are not for everyone.

There is going to be a dealer fairly close to me in Pa. I wonder when they are going to get them in?

Joe

[Unburst]

All I can add is that I had a set of Bardens once in my own Tele. With 500K pots they sheared your head off. With 250K pots, they were, to my ears, to put it positively, accurate; to put it negatively, sterile.



I had a pair of his HB's in a Klein and a set of SC's in my Tele.

I liked the HB's ok but didn't love them and my amp didn't like them at all, they made it break up in a not nice way. I eventually swapped them for HD Z-90s.

The SC's I had in my Tele, the neck pup was good in a bright way but it was a little too responsive, like a piezo acoustic.
I like a responsive guitar/pup/amp as much as anyone, but too much of a good thing is as bad as not enough.
It lacked the character and "sag" that I like in a regular SC.

The bridge pup was overbearingly spitty and brittle and way out of balance, tonally speaking, with the neck.
Rolling down the tone did nothing except make it muffled, but still thin.

Overall they sounded like really loud underwound pups, with a little piezo quack thrown in.

Some guys love them, but they were not for me.

[Jerrod]

Jerrod,
I've been wanting to contact you. I was wondering if you still had the Gatton? I miss that guitar.

You definately need to work those tone controls with Bardens to get the most out of them. My friend uses them in his '67 Tele (alder/rosewood) and they sound awesome. I also agree with Jon that they are not for everyone.

There is going to be a dealer fairly close to me in Pa. I wonder when they are going to get them in?

Joe
Yep, still have it.

[King Cobra]

A Tele set went for $600 on ebay a few days ago. Ouch.
Yeah but those were pre 2002 Pick ups..........Gonna be worth alot more..........http://forums.birdsandmoons.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif:rolleyes:

[Jon Silberman]

To put my comments in perspective, after a lot of experimentation, for the past 3 years, my Tele has had a Fender Nocaster bridge PUP (the original 10.2K design) and a Harmonic Design V+ neck PUP. Those just work the best for me. Again, let me emphasize, Bardens are fine PUPs - just not for me.

[King Cobra]

Thanks for clearing that up John............:rolleyes:

[NuSkoolTone]

A Tele set went for $600 on ebay a few days ago. Ouch.
Apparently this is WHY Joe Barden is back in business. His new Single Coil pickups "list" at $170 PER pickup! Ca-Ching! ;)

[Joe Perry]

Apparently this is WHY Joe Barden is back in business. His new Single Coil pickups "list" at $170 PER pickup! Ca-Ching! ;)
I *think* he is also adopting the "no discount off list" rule like many other botique makers. I called a fairly local dealer to me and they quoted $169 ea.

[trisonic]

His pickups have always been expensive (compared to others). Ken Hoover (Zion) built me a Strat type guitar at the end of the eighties - he charged me $850.00 of which $300.00 was for the Barden Pick ups (the total also included a Wayne Garrett true Candy Apple Red).
OK, Ken gave me a break but we're talking 1988 here!

Best Pete.

[shallbe]

I built a Tele custom years ago. I wanted the ultimate "gig" Tele for me.

I had a birdseye Fender Masterbuiilt neck, used an older black Fender Custom body, a Fender "Seth" humbucker for the neck and bought one of the Barden Tele bridge pickups. I wanted a noiseless, but versatile and familiar instrument. Acoustically, it is NOT a bright guitar.

I was EXTREMELY dissappointed with the Barden. Being a Tele player most of my life, having played paying gigs for over 25 years, I know what I like---and great Tele tone is a favorite. I play with a pick and fingers approach. The Barden was way too harsh and piercingly bright, and extremely, somehow overly sensitive. So much so that even with pulling back on tone of the guitar and amp, the response felt all wrong, and the tone lifeless. Very immediate and cold. Snapping the strings with my nails was actually painful at normal tone settings.

I called Joe for help. I did not criticise the product at all, jut asked for assistance. Do I have the right pots? What about bridge material (I had Mann brass saddles), etc. It turns out all my values and components were correct, but he told me that "only sophisticated players can really appreciate my pickups." I indicated I was no novice. He said, "I'm glad I can produce a product that will help you get better." I wasn't very happy with his interest or tone.

I asked if he could wind me a darker pickup---like the Joe Perry Strat model, but in a Tele casing. No swap, I would buy it. He said he does that work for artists, but for me, no. I sold the pickup for $50. Replaced it wth a Harmonic Design Super 90 and never looked back.

While I didn't like the tone and feel of the Barden pickup, I disliked Joe's tone even more. When I saw he later went out of business, with no info---I chalked it up to customer realtions and poor decisions. I wish him luck this go round. I'm sure he's learned a thing or two.

[Tommy P.]

shallbe, you really shouldn't have been put off by Joe's comments, he said what needed to be said, even if it was a generic consultation. I mean, the man can talk, and has a world class perspective in terms of what he knows about guitar and amp tone. And his ramblings are FREE OF CHARGE to you. If anything was bad for his business, it was his willingness to give away his time for free.

Really great news about the Barden pickups being available again, but I was never worried about not finding them. As it turns out, a lot of players won't use them.
At twice the price or even three times the price...it doesn't matter... whether its Bardens, or some other brand; you have to get what you think you need, regardless.

I was and still am a big Gatton fan, so when I bought my first Two-Tone Humbucker, I was very determined to get the range of tones with my fingers and those pups, that I heard Danny getting. The truth is, those tones, and a whole lot more are available with the Bardens. The single coil setting of the TTHB is a hi-fi-like strat single coil.

The problems getting Bardens into a workable rig, center around getting all the high end fizz out of the guitar amp (plug a CD player into your guitar channel to really understand how dark the output of most guitars is). By re-voicing the amp to a less "excited" high-end, the audible noise floor of most OD's and distortion pedals gets attenuated quite a bit. Its not just the elimination of hum that makes Bardens sound so quiet.

The Bardens will still let you hear all the handling noise, open string whizzers and fret noise, and general untidiness of you playing your favorite guitar that was masked by the old rig.

Get that worked out, LOL!

Then feel bad, that all your other guitars will sound dull in the newly tweaked rig and you will need Bardens for all of them. Umm, hey, thats not really a bad thing...

[Jerrod]

There you go Shallbe... you should be happy that Joe didn't charge you to insult you!

[Tommy P.]

There you go Shallbe... you should be happy that Joe didn't charge you to insult you!
Hehehe! yep!

[Troubleman]

My 2 pesos worth.... (my opinion and $3.50'll getcha a triple venti mocha at Starbucks)....

I used to own a Gatton Tele (now I kinda wish I had it back) with Bardens. I have a reissue floral Tele that (at least for now) has them. They are brighter than most other Tele pickups, and by comparison - hyper active. They are very sensitive to finger noise etc. My guess: much/most/many of the complaints about "lifelessness" come as a result of lowering them too much or trying to compensate by rolling back the tone controls. What I've observed is that they don't work well with every amp set up, and they work well with a smaller cross-section of overdrive pedals that the average pickup. They definitely seem to favor darker-sounding amps, and they get fizzy with too much artificially-induced preamp gain. My best sounds are probably with a Marshall Jubilee 2555 (dark sounding for a Marshall), or vintage Fenders and not using the bright channel - both sans pedals (and without JBL speakers). That said, they did seem to work well with Klon Centaur overdrives and darker-sounding (actually mid-range strident) TS-9s. They will also expose less-than-accurate-and-clean playing chops like no other pickup. You get no cruise-control melding of notes - everything rings out clearly, especially finger noise.

For the record, I've an older set in my Tele (not the original single-blade ones!). I guess they're supposed to be a bit darker? I've a set of unused ones sitting in their boxes; now I'll have dig them out and check their manufacture date....

BTW - whomever posted about the NoCaster bridge pickup and Harmonic Design VP neck: great combo. My "mutt" Tele has a set of NoCaster pickups. I've been debating changing out the neck pickup; I'm torn between a Harmonic Design, being entirely different and getting a Lollar Charlie Christian pickup for the neck position (great sound!)...

Peace,

jb

[mprvise]

I decided on a whim to use my Gatton Tele on a gig tonight for the first time in years. Rig was Tele > Eternity > Swamp Thang > Echo Park > Top Hat Club Royale one 12" deep cab. Sounded fantastic! Compliments abound from band and audience members. No doubt I'll be using it again. I had to dial in the amp especially for the Bardens, and had to ride the tone control, especially when switching pickups. These pups are definitely not for everyone, but man did they ever work for me tonight. :dude:

[fullerplast]

Having used Bardens in many teles and strats, I have to say that they seem to match up with certain guitars much better than others. My favorite and best sounding tele is set up with Bardens, and probably my worst sounding tele was also set up with Bardens (before I swapped them out). I can completely understand how some people don't like them in a particular guitar because I've heard them that way too. On the other hand, listen to Bill Kirchen or Arlen Roth and tell me they don't get astounding tone from them.

I find that most pickups are that way to a certain extent, but perhaps Bardens are more particular. All I'm suggesting is that if you only tried them in one guitar, you may want to try them in something else. The tone is there, it's just waiting for the right match.

[guitrr]

Well said, JB; you managed to summarize the Barden characteristics pretty well.

I have a Barden strat set in my Grosh RT, and used to have a Tele set in a G&L ASAT Classic, but I took them out when I sold the guitar, to put them in the Grosh tele that replaced the G&L, but the Grosh's stock Fralins sounded so good I didn't want to mess with the formula - if it ain't broken, don't fix it, right?

Anyhow, the Bardens are very sensitve to setup, especially height in relation to the strings. Moving them a little can make a big difference. I've found that seems to be the one commonality between all the best single coil pickups. I've got single coil Fralin, Suhr, Rio Grande, EMG, and Barden pickups in various guitars, and moving any of them just a little can make a huge difference.

Bardens are very hi-fi, and will broadcast every movement, squeak, and slide of your hands; but if you learn to work with that you can use it as a tool. They are also very sensitive to the volume control - when maxed they will push a tube amp like a high output passive or an active pickup, but without the mushiness of the high output passives. If you back off the guitar's volume control a little, they clean up very nicely and can sound very vintage. I really love my Bardens, and have learned to utilize their capabilites like another musical tool, just as you'd use an amp or pedal. And JB was right, they do seem to love a Klon Centaur.

I'm thrilled to learn that Joe is back in operation, so this marvelous implement will again be widely available. Btw, there was a long discussion about him a few months ago on TGP, and it came out that most of what set his operation out of commision for a while was the loss of several key employees, and I believe there was talk of some shady characters with access to the profits (not Joe himself, but someone taking advantage of him).

Kane

[Cheebatone]

Yeah but those were pre 2002 Pick ups..........Gonna be worth alot more..........http://forums.birdsandmoons.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif:rolleyes:
I hope so. I've got a lefty Danny Gatton bridge p/up from the 'Vienna years'. :D

[Jon Silberman]

I kinda chuckle when I read things like you just gotta know how they're so sensitive to the height adjustment or you have to use your volume and tone control with these. I know a bit about the experience and skills of several others who have posted here but speaking just for m'self, I played with adjusting my Bardens and the volume and tone controls on my Tele every which way since Sunday. Come on - it's a darn Tele, ain't it?! I also played 'em though all of my own amps and others', too. They simply were not keepers. That's it. The folks who have said it's a matter of Bardens being voiced for some and not others, in my view, are the ones who are getting it right.