Hip-Hop: Musically bankrupt, or just plain Satanic?

[Cheebatone]

You be the judge...

[ianj5150]

Both. Apart from Eminem, who knows how to use English better than any living American musician (Dylan notwithstanding).

[1964]

Both and other.

[Khud]

Just a waste ... talk about no Socially Redeeming Value. In most cases, exactly the opposite

And ... they dont play guitar :eek:

The talent for writing is evident, just a shame its being used this way, even if they ARE making tons of $$$. The lucky ones anyway.

I wonder how many kids are not concentrating on school because they think they are gonna get rich rappin.

Ahhhh Youth ... But, it Is what it IS

[tedm]

http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tedmyall.mp3

[Peter]

Hip hop with tedm's guitar is god.

[tedm]

Actually Sub-D made it sound good, he produced, and co-wrote (mostly wrote) that piece.

Hip hop with tedm's guitar is god.

[coreybox]

http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tedmyall.mp3

Not sure I would classify that as hip hop.

I think that would be rather hard to rap some lyrics too.

[Chops]

What Scott said, +1,000!

[Robert1950]

In the 50s, Rock 'n Roll was supposed to be just plain satanic. I the 60s, Psychedelic was supposed to be just plain satanic. In 70s, Punk was supposed to be just plain satanic. In the 80s, Heavy Metal was supposed to be just plain satanic. Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???

[Khud]

Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???
Oh, no question :rolleyes:

[George Johnson]

Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???
It would appear so. :o

[Rusmurf]

Hip Hop's not any worse off then any other type of music right now. There's a lot of crap on the radio, and it's all kinds of music. There's some decent stuff around, it's just a bit harder to find right now.

[therover]

[QUOTE=Robert1950] Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???

Apparently we have been forced to by the message of sex,violence,drug use, and glamorization of criminal behaviour. It's a social threat to kids, especially when 85% of listeners are suburban middle-class kids.

[Rusmurf]

[QUOTE=Robert1950] Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???

Apparently we have been forced to by the message of sex,violence,drug use, and glamorization of criminal behaviour. It's a social threat to kids, especially when 85% of listeners are suburban middle-class kids.

And that's never appeared in a rock song?

[Adam]

Today's hip-hop is just like today's rock or anything else. Most of what you hear in passing is mass-produced pap designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The good stuff only appears when you go out and look for it.

[Robert1950]

Apparently we have been forced to by the message of sex,violence,drug use, and glamorization of criminal behaviour. It's a social threat to kids, especially when 85% of listeners are suburban middle-class kids.

Sex and drugs have been associated with rock music since the the 60s. Rap and HipHop (but not all) has added violence, mysogomy and homophobia to the mix.

[Rusmurf]

Sex and drugs have been associated with rock music since the the 60s. Rap and HipHop (but not all) has added violence, mysogomy and homophobia to the mix.
See above post...

[jdblax]

For my philosophy and ethics class, I was assigned quite a weighty issue with the topic of rap. I decided to talk about the unfair bias against it in todays culture, and will not delve into every issue that I discussed in my paper here, but it was a fascinating subject, and I came to the conclusion that:

1:Those biased against rap and rap culture, for whatever alleged reason, whether it be “misogyny,” “self-degradation,” etc., cannot justify their bias by that reasoning alone. A culture in and of itself cannot justify its own social damnation. No culture is comprised of simply misogyny and self-degradation.

2.When social problems such as violence, drugs, and prostitution, that are associated with rap culture, are blamed on the music itself, a serious error has been made in allocation of blame for these problems. As stated by UNESCO, culture “is constantly recreated by communities and groups, in response to their environment, their interaction with nature, and their history.”

3.The problem of rap, therefore, is found not in rap music itself, but in the social problems which plague a culture: violence, poverty, and most importantly, lack of education.

I live in Memphis, and with my high-school's many high-up connections to many industries, a friend of a friend of our teacher got Al Kapone to come speak to our class in defence of hip-hop as an expression of the pain and suffering experienced thorugh life in the ghetto. It was a truly remarkable expereince. For those of you who dont know, Al Kapone has written many hit songs, notably the grammy winning, "Whoop That Trick" From "Hustle and Flow's" soundtrack. He spoke eloquently and justly about many issues surrounding rap, and I will never forget the experience. I hope no one will automatically discount another genre or group of anything just because it is foreign or feels threatening to ones values.

[Cheebatone]

Good to see the 'light blue touch paper' approach still works, even in TGP's holiday home... :rolleyes:

[Guitarfool]

Im a fan of older hip hop/rap (late 80's through late 90's - Run DMC, Brand Nubians, EPMD, KRS-1, Tribe Called Quest, Da La Soul, Heavy D, Pete Rock + CL Smooth, Bid Daddy Kane, etc, etc) and still enjoy a lil Eminem/50 Cent or Kanye West song from time to time today, so im far from one of those "rap sucks" type lol..

I dont think the "no talent" argument really holds much weight because even though it may not involve musical instruments in the traditional way, to come up with the beats/arrangments/production and lyrics and rapping style patterns, etc does take a certain amount of competance/talent that the ave person simply doesnt have IMO..

On the other hand there is a underbelly with rap/hip-hop that is ugly or has ugliness to it! Im sorry but there is (again im a fan) but in no other culture/music has the notion or idea of "bling-bling, thugish life, look at me + what i have, $$$ lifestyle, but whats the worse is the accepted or even promoted idea/notion of women being called b*tches, HO's, etc (shake you azzz, booty, etc) BTW im faaaaar from the P.C police but again i think the idealogy/culture is shoved down kids throats/brains just a lil 2 much! (Video's lifestyle, etc)..

Just my 02..

[King Cobra]

[QUOTE=Robert1950] Are we turning into our parents and grandparents here ???

Apparently we have been forced to by the message of sex,violence,drug use, and glamorization of criminal behaviour. It's a social threat to kids, especially when 85% of listeners are suburban middle-class kids.

I agree.
MTV Is EVIL. They get all over Howard Stern when MTV is a million times worse.

[Guitarfool]

I agree.
MTV Is EVIL. They get all over Howard Stern when MTV is a million times worse.
MTV is terrible/pathetic on soooooo many levels, cant believe what a heap of sh*t they turned it into, seriously..

[Crunchyriff]

RAP is just CRAP with the "c" removed.

I rank Hip-hop as just a smaller barnacle on the hull of humanity.

[aleclee]

Different strokes for different folks.

Some guys like blondes
Some guys like brunettes
Some guys like redheads
Some guys like guys
I'm not gonna tell any of the above groups they're wrong, why treat rap fans any differently?

IMO, when it comes to misogyny, bling, etc., the difference between rock and rap is often one of degree, not type. Anyone recall the story about Led Zep and a mud shark?

Personally, I don't care for rap as a genre just because most works in that realm don't give me a musical stiffy. Of course, the same could be said of jazz.

[Guitarfool]

Different strokes for different folks.

Some guys like blondes
Some guys like brunettes
Some guys like redheads
Some guys like guys
I'm not gonna tell any of the above groups they're wrong, why treat rap fans any differently?

IMO, when it comes to misogyny, bling, etc., the difference between rock and rap is often one of degree, not type. Anyone recall the story about Led Zep and a mud shark?

Personally, I don't care for rap as a genre just because most works in that realm don't give me a musical stiffy. Of course, the same could be said of jazz.To an extent you are right Aleclee, and of course Rock n Roll has a history of Sex, Drugs & Rock n Roll (daaaaaaaahh) but i dont ever ever remember in Rock & Roll where people/individuals called their moms, girlfriends, wives, hoes + b*tches! EVER! --- We dont want to get into the whole gloryifying of gangs, thug life, violence, etc becuase thats another ugly side of it!

Again im not with the P.C Police by any stretch but there is a real undercurrent/ugliness associated with rap + the hip hop culture that is there and people cant put there heads in the sand + say it doesnt exist because it does..

[BBQLS1]

MTV is terrible/pathetic on soooooo many levels, cant believe what a heap of sh*t they turned it into, seriously..
MTV and the music industry have ruined music.

[Crunchyriff]

MTV and the music industry have ruined music.+1. IN spades.

[aleclee]

To an extent you are right Aleclee, and of course Rock n Roll has a history of Sex, Drugs & Rock n Roll (daaaaaaaahh) but i dont ever ever remember in Rock & Roll where people/individuals called their moms, girlfriends, wives, hoes + b*tches! EVER!Maybe so but a lot of rock bands have treated wives/girlfriends/hookups like crap. They might not use that language in their songs but the underlying attitude is arguably similar.
We dont want to get into the whole gloryifying of gangs, thug life, violence, etc becuase thats another ugly side of it!Is it really so much uglier than deifying junkies? A lot of iconic rock & rollers were pretty pathetic creatures right up until the point where their addictions cost them their lives.

I suppose all the studs and chains worn by 80s metal bands were just fashion accessories. There was no "I'm a badass" message intended, I'm sure. They weren't all trying to play out homoerotic fantasies. ;)

[tedm]

this thread reminds me of a relevant scene in the Johnson Family Vacation movie.

Maybe so but a lot of rock bands have treated wives/girlfriends/hookups like crap. They might not use that language in their songs but the underlying attitude is arguably similar.
Is it really so much uglier than deifying junkies? A lot of iconic rock & rollers were pretty pathetic creatures right up until the point where their addictions cost them their lives.

I suppose all the studs and chains worn by 80s metal bands were just fashion accessories. There was no "I'm a badass" message intended, I'm sure. They weren't all trying to play out homoerotic fantasies. ;)

[burningwater]

just like all forms of music, there is good and bad and even that falls into each persons own perception. As for mine, I have never liked the POSERS of any genre much and that is what youll see plastered all over MTV. Streams of thugs like 50cent who lack talent and really dont have anything new to say do nothing for me. They usually ride on flash and shock and it sounds pretty much like any other corporate cookie cutter version of a thug out there. OK, lets get some girlz to dance with big butts. Afew limos, planes, speedboats, gold chains etc and make a video.

Unfortunately, shallow flash feeds a large part of our youth something it needs - (a larger discussion)

The best part of any music to me is inovation, offer something new to say or at least a new way to express it. If your not striving for something special than your just a poser. Same reason I couldnt stand Poison when metal was big. Chicks, beer, party - YAY!

Play that funky music may be classic, but compared to sly, curtis, etc its pretty flat.

Check out a Jurrasic 5 album if you want to hear some talent in the rap arena. Im diggin Lyrics Born right now. GREAT RAP, and from an asian dude!

[Adam]

just like all forms of music, there is good and bad and even that falls into each persons own perception. As for mine, I have never liked the POSERS of any genre much and that is what youll see plastered all over MTV. Streams of thugs like 50cent who lack talent and really dont have anything new to say do nothing for me. They usually ride on flash and shock and it sounds pretty much like any other corporate cookie cutter version of a thug out there. OK, lets get some girlz to dance with big butts. Afew limos, planes, speedboats, gold chains etc and make a video.

Unfortunately, shallow flash feeds a large part of our youth something it needs - (a larger discussion)

The best part of any music to me is inovation, offer something new to say or at least a new way to express it. If your not striving for something special than your just a poser. Same reason I couldnt stand Poison when metal was big. Chicks, beer, party - YAY!

Play that funky music may be classic, but compared to sly, curtis, etc its pretty flat.

Check out a Jurrasic 5 album if you want to hear some talent in the rap arena. Im diggin Lyrics Born right now. GREAT RAP, and from an asian dude!
Well said, man.

<reminds self to pay attention to Burningwater's posts>

[Boomdoggy]

I have been listening to rap for about 20 years.I do think some of the new stuff is terrible,but I don't see how some can think it is so bad.here are some points.
1)Ever listen to 80's death metal.Violent -yes,Satanic -yes.I don't know where you people were in the 80's.The rap was also violent (probably worse than now).Punk was violent and sometimes rascist.
2)There are many guitar players discussed on this site that are worshipped for being good songwriters.You speak bad about them and get attacked.I think some are lousy players ,so if they are just songwriters,they are not much ahead of the rappers.
3)I have heard many rednecks refer to rap with a different name.I think if rap was 95% white ,we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
4) I do agree that kids should be steered away from some of this stuff.I do agree that it is wrong to make the thug lifestyle look great.People in this country are making less and less.It is hard to make a living.Crime will keep going up and this music will continue to sell.

[derek_32999]

I think old beat boxes should come back check out this youtuber. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wlmx8qQHiA)

[KRosser]

I don't get this at all. Rap/hip hop, whatever, never bothered me; on the contrary, I think some of it is quite cool.

[Troubleman]

I have been listening to rap for about 20 years.I do think some of the new stuff is terrible,but I don't see how some can think it is so bad.here are some points.
1)Ever listen to 80's death metal.Violent -yes,Satanic -yes.I don't know where you people were in the 80's.The rap was also violent (probably worse than now).Punk was violent and sometimes rascist.
2)There are many guitar players discussed on this site that are worshipped for being good songwriters.You speak bad about them and get attacked.I think some are lousy players ,so if they are just songwriters,they are not much ahead of the rappers.
3)I have heard many rednecks refer to rap with a different name.I think if rap was 95% white ,we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
4) I do agree that kids should be steered away from some of this stuff.I do agree that it is wrong to make the thug lifestyle look great.People in this country are making less and less.It is hard to make a living.Crime will keep going up and this music will continue to sell.
Astute and from my vantage point fairly accurate accessment...

jb

[bassomatic]

I don't get this at all. Rap/hip hop, whatever, never bothered me; on the contrary, I think some of it is quite cool.


+1.

Look, there's good and bad in all genres - that's what your taste/braincells are for, no?

I have to take issue with isolating hiphop in the misogyny/homophobia blame game. It smacks of grasping at straws to rationalize a decision to dismiss a genre one simply does not like/get. Don't like rap? No problemo.

Just check yourself before decrying a lack of talent in the field (you're ignance is showing, and it reflects poorly on no one but you).

Also, hiphop/rap is a vast river with many tributaries, offshoots, mutations. It's not all about bling, uzis, and hos. There is some very life-affirming, positive-vibe-having stuff to be found out there (for the interested and/or open minded and/or not lazy).

Peace out, y'all...

-conor

[Guitarfool]

+1.

Look, there's good and bad in all genres - that's what your taste/braincells are for, no?

I have to take issue with isolating hiphop in the misogyny/homophobia blame game. It smacks of grasping at straws to rationalize a decision to dismiss a genre one simply does not like/get. Don't like rap? No problemo.

Just check yourself before decrying a lack of talent in the field (you're ignance is showing, and it reflects poorly on no one but you).

Also, hiphop/rap is a vast river with many tributaries, offshoots, mutations. It's not all about bling, uzis, and hos. There is some very life-affirming, positive-vibe-having stuff to be found out there (for the interested and/or open minded and/or not lazy).

Peace out, y'all...

-conor
Maybe so but whats being pedaled/pushed out? Flick on the boob tube or listen to the local urban Rap station (97.1 or 105.1 here in NY) and you will see whats being "pushed", its not 2 diverse these days!

[bassomatic]

Maybe so but whats being pedaled/pushed out? Flick on the boob tube or listen to the local urban Rap station (97.1 or 105.1 here in NY) and you will see whats being "pushed", its not 2 diverse these days!

Nor is any commercial format. Sounds like a side issue, not the focus of this (inherently negative?) thread.

[pjrhd28]

My XM satellite radio includes a channel that has a lot of comedy. The other day, they were playing a bit from an old Groucho Marx show called "You Bet Your Life". This show was probably from the late mid to late 50's or so.

One of the contestants was a "musicologist" which, at least according to him, meant that he studied music and had written several books about music, including a biography of Hammerstein of Hammerstein and Rodgers fame.

Groucho asked him about rock and roll and the guy said that he did not study rock and roll because "it isn't music" and he only studied music.

My point here is that popular music has almost always pushed boundaries and that hip hop is just another stage in that development. It's not much different than when rock and roll started (remember CBS not letting Elvis be filmed below the waist??)


I don't listen to hip hop or rap but its not bad nor Satanic. If hip hop is Satanic, what would you call Marilyn Manson?

Its just another phase. There will be more, and they will seem more anti-social.

[Peter]

I think Marilyn Manson would be pleased to be called Satanic.

As far as Hip-Hop goes, I agree that what makes it onto the airwaves is mostly pretty musically bankrupt - but is that any different than any other style of music? Which style of music is it that has its most creative, artistic practitioners getting lots of airplay and popularity?

[Guitarfool]

Nor is any commercial format. Sounds like a side issue, not the focus of this (inherently negative?) thread.
So am i in left feild then? Am i wrong/crazy to think theres negativity in the Hip-hop Rap culture these days? :confused:

It was always a "undercurrent" but its been more prevalent the past couple yrs IMO..

Like i wrote in my original post i grew up listening to rap and still enjoy it slightly today but i dont care for the general direction its taken! YES it was there a lil bit 10+ yrs ago, NWA, ICE-TEA ONYX, were some groups pushing the boundries 10+ yrs ago but it wasnt as celebrated as it is today..

[Vaughnc]

Like some other types of "music", I don't "get" hip-hop/rap and I find a lot of the lyrics very distasteful. To each his own.

Musically bankrupt? Is poetry recited to a drum actually music? Subjective.

Satanic? Probably depends on your religous beliefs.....but it has been said that evil will take advantage of an open door. However, we've come a long way since radio stations were banning Louie, Louie in 1963....but I think people will eventually get tired of hip-hop and it will go the way of disco. Then, what direction will popular music take? Who knows, but I can't see how it could get more vulger than it is now. How much farther can they push the shock factor?

[Peter]

Is poetry recited to a drum actually music? Subjective.Considering that the closest one can approach a definition of "music" would be "organized sound", then it certainly is music. But since even that definition doesn't adequately define what music is - since silence has been defined as Music, as well as non-organized sound, etc. - maybe the question of whether something is music or not is irrelevant. Rap is, and whether someone defines it as poetry, music, art or none of the above does not change what it is.

As an antidote for this post please listen to "Raw Power" by Iggy and the Stooges. I'm going to.

[Turbo Gerbil]

but i dont ever ever remember in Rock & Roll where people/individuals called their moms, girlfriends, wives, hoes + b*tches! EVER!
Sure... and Stranglehold, Hey Joe, Boom Boom, and any number of other rock and blues songs are all very positive in regards to women.

[jeffhef]

I don't know...I kinda liked Kid Rock at first. I like a lot of the stuff with a more positive message...tobymac, KJ-52, old dctalk, T-bone, Grits, etc...

jeffhef

[Guitarfool]

Sure... and Stranglehold, Hey Joe, Boom Boom, and any number of other rock and blues songs are all very positive in regards to women.Was it in the context of a song or a way of thinking? lifestyle? perceptions?

I just find it curious that some people try to deny or defend this type of thinking?

Like i said im not the PC Police, i just i dont recall a mainstream music /l ifestyle / culture where this was so prevalent..

[dougb415]

There are many guitar players discussed on this site that are worshipped for being good songwriters.You speak bad about them and get attacked.I think some are lousy players ,so if they are just songwriters,they are not much ahead of the rappers.
How can a guitar player be just a songwriter? I'm not sure I follow this point.

[dougb415]

Sure... and Stranglehold, Hey Joe, Boom Boom, and any number of other rock and blues songs are all very positive in regards to women.
What is the rap equivalent of "You Are So Beautiful (To Me)"?

[Cheebatone]

What is the rap equivalent of "You Are So Beautiful (To Me)"?
"Baby Got Back"

[Cheebatone]

What is the rap equivalent of "You Are So Beautiful (To Me)"?
Baby Got Back.

[dougb415]

Baby Got Back.
*laughter* There ya go... the best the hiphop community can come up with in regards to praise for women is "I love big butts." The same cannot be said of rock.... and since hiphop has been around for 25+ years now, it's not like there hasn't been ample time to write something positive.

[BJF]

i,

If Hip hop and rap et.c is the music of the youth and as music of the youth it must repell the generation before that, it sounds to me as if mission is accomplished. I think that goes for other youth cultures as
in time always it has.
Oh well I realize I am getting old but feel comfortable about it and I don't have to understand

How far the shocklevel must be driven to exceed this is hard to imagine for me but I am sure that there will be something that will appaul the hip generation too.

A good friend of mine, that also records with the local hip artists these days was once asked ( about 20 years ago) to play something really scary for a horrormovie track and thought long and hard to come up with a lollabie - what is secure can also be the most dangerous.

Perhaps one day youngsters will dance themselves unconcious to the theme of Teletubbies.

Yes, I did try to understand some 20 years ago and was told to listen to the lyrichs as there appearently wasn't much in terms of instruments, but I failed to hear the lyrichs, maybe just aswell as this music would not make the hair on my arms stand on one end- actually regardless how clever texts there might have been. Hip Hop is here to stay for years to come- oh yea perhaps I thought it would pass.....

I listen to Audio Karate and hear only fragments of words, but the guitarlines kontra the basslines and melody are so intriguing that I have a hard time to stop listening.It is such music that I can relate to and
have in my frame of understanding and it is not always important to hear the lyrichs either. Come to think of it I enjoyed the Beatles long before I knew one word of english

I vote Other as in rebellion, as I can't hear the lyrichs I won't say satanic, and while I don't understand this expression I can't say musically bankrupt.

Just a thought
BJ

[Boomdoggy]

How can a guitar player be just a songwriter? I'm not sure I follow this point. I am not going to name anybody,but when you look at some of the top 100 guitar player lists, you will see many players that are on the lists more for songwriting than playing.They are influential because their music was popular ,not because they were good players.The rappers are just about in the same group.They know how to come up with good hooks and lyrics the kids want to hear.May barely be musicians at all,but their music is very popular.It all "smells like teen spirit "to me.;)

[dougb415]

I am not going to name anybody,but when you look at some of the top 100 guitar player lists, you will see many players that are on the lists more for songwriting than playing.They are influential because their music was popular ,not because they were good players.The rappers are just about in the same group.They know how to come up with good hooks and lyrics the kids want to hear.May barely be musicians at all,but their music is very popular.It all "smells like teen spirit "to me.;)
The differences that I see:

- the singer/songwriter/guitarist usually has some musical knowledge, can play an instrument and can SING

- rappers usually have no clue as to how to play anything (ever see them in GC? They play the same 3-4 note riff over and over - at least the ones at the GC in Oakland)

- rappers will sample someone else's work and use that as their base

- it's just talk talk talk over some music background. Melody? What's that?

- like I said in another post, the most romantic hiphop song that speaks positively of women is "Baby Got Back"

*Please understand that I am going on limited knowledge and experience, because admittedly any time I hear "the sound" (attitude, overpowering bass drum) I'm outa there*

[Cheebatone]

...the most romantic hiphop song that speaks positively of women is "Baby Got Back"

I posted that as a joke.

LL Cool J did 'I Need Love' in 1987-ish.

Friendship, trust honor respect admiration
this whole experience has been such a revelation
It's taught me love and how to be a real man
to always be considerate and do all I can...

It's trite, but it's still a love... er... song?

[aleclee]

- it's just talk talk talk over some music background. Melody? What's that?Same thing that this white guy did on this album. Seriously.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002HJD.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Cheebatone]

The differences that I see:

- the singer/songwriter/guitarist usually has some musical knowledge, can play an instrument and can SING.
I believe Lou Reed falls into this category, but...

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000005S37.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

...sucks pretty hard.

[dougb415]

LL Cool J did 'I Need Love' in 1987-ish.

Friendship, trust honor respect admiration
this whole experience has been such a revelation
It's taught me love and how to be a real man
to always be considerate and do all I can...

It's trite, but it's still a love... er... song?
Okay, there's one...

[dougb415]

Same thing that this white guy did on this album. Seriously.


Yeahhhhh....... but there were at least a few others where he really *did* sing...

[dougb415]

I believe Lou Reed falls into this category, but...

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000005S37.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

...sucks pretty hard.
I can still remember buying this as soon as it hit the store.... trying desperately to find something to listen to :eek:

[Boomdoggy]

The differences that I see:

- the singer/songwriter/guitarist usually has some musical knowledge, can play an instrument and can SING

- rappers usually have no clue as to how to play anything (ever see them in GC? They play the same 3-4 note riff over and over - at least the ones at the GC in Oakland)

- rappers will sample someone else's work and use that as their base

- it's just% talk talk talk over some music background. Melody? What's that?

- like I said in another post, the most romantic hiphop song that speaks positively of women is "Baby Got Back"

*Please understand that I am going on limited knowledge and experience, because admittedly any time I hear "the sound" (attitude, overpowering bass drum) I'm outa there* I agree with most of what you said.The only things I will say in hip hops defense is about the facts.We musicians might not get it ,but obviously millions of Americans do.These people want something they can dance to,sing along with,relate to.
They are not going to listen to more than 5 seconds of a fusion player going over a soft,laid back song.We sometimes take being players way to seriously.Most people want hear that catchy riff with a good beat and words that stick in there heads.

[bassomatic]

So am i in left feild then? Am i wrong/crazy to think theres negativity in the Hip-hop Rap culture these days? :confused:

It was always a "undercurrent" but its been more prevalent the past couple yrs IMO..


Consider Kanye West, one of the hottest artists in any format right now.

Positvity? Damned straight.

Gangsta-ism is less prevalent than ever, imo.

[Jerrod]

Consider Kanye West, one of the hottest artists in any format right now.

Positvity? Damned straight.

Gangsta-ism is less prevalent than ever, imo.
Basso,
Those that only want to convince others of the wrongness of certain genres of music aren't likely to listen with open ears and open minds. But thanks for trying.

[bassomatic]

Musically bankrupt? Is poetry recited to a drum actually music? Subjective.

Tell it to the ancient Greeks (okay, so substitute a lyre for a drum machine - ther lyre wasn't exactly a flexible instrument, by todays standards).

Also, see the Varesian "organized sound" retort above.

A hilbilly blowing in a jug is Good Old Timey music, but give a black kid a beatbox and the standards rapidly change (in some folks' minds).

[bassomatic]

Basso,
Those that only want to convince others of the wrongness of certain genres of music aren't likely to listen with open ears and open minds. But thanks for trying.

I realize this, but i'm stubborn as hell and have a few moments to kill before i turn in. And you never know.

[Jerrod]

I realize this, but i'm stubborn as hell and have a few moments to kill before i turn in. And you never know.
Keep on trucking!

[bassomatic]

The differences that I see:

- the singer/songwriter/guitarist usually has some musical knowledge, can play an instrument and can SING

- rappers usually have no clue as to how to play anything (ever see them in GC? They play the same 3-4 note riff over and over - at least the ones at the GC in Oakland)

- rappers will sample someone else's work and use that as their base

- it's just talk talk talk over some music background. Melody? What's that?

- like I said in another post, the most romantic hiphop song that speaks positively of women is "Baby Got Back"

*Please understand that I am going on limited knowledge and experience, because admittedly any time I hear "the sound" (attitude, overpowering bass drum) I'm outa there*

Case closed. You know not whereof you speak, and it reflects poorly on your general level of inquisitiveness.

[Cheebatone]

A hilbilly blowing in a jug is Good Old Timey music, but give a black kid a beatbox and the standards rapidly change (in some folks' minds).
Agreed.

[Guitarfool]

Consider Kanye West, one of the hottest artists in any format right now.

Positvity? Damned straight.

Gangsta-ism is less prevalent than ever, imo.
Agree on Kanye West, but if you bothered to read my 1st couple posts you would have saw that i already mentioned Kanye..

I also think the M.C - Rapper is not really the star anymore, its now the producer(s) who are the stars! AL: - Neptunes, Dr Dre, Pharrel (sp?)

Back in the day it was a M.C-Rapper and either a drum machine/D.J and he did his thing, some guys dont even write there own raps these days!

[dougb415]

A hilbilly blowing in a jug is Good Old Timey music, but give a black kid a beatbox and the standards rapidly change (in some folks' minds).
How about the hillbilly with the beatbox - or the black kid blowing in a jug? What then?

[Cheebatone]

How about the hillbilly with the beatbox...
Sounds great!

[bassomatic]

How about the hillbilly with the beatbox...

Sounds like my friend Matte.

One erudite hillbilly (if PA-tucky counts, as it should), one mofo with the beats.

Other than the fact that hybridization is a good thing (?), i miss the point of your post.

[Cheebatone]

I do beats waay better than I play guitar. Can somebody Hillbillyatize me, please? I smell money in Country & Breakbeat!

[dougb415]

Case closed. You know not whereof you speak, and it reflects poorly on your general level of inquisitiveness.
I'm glad we have the bestowers of great knowledge, such as yourself. I am humbled in your presence.

(My "general level of inquisitiveness"? Huh?)

You may want to consider that our OPINIONS don't jibe. That's all. Please feel free to believe that rap/hiphop is great stuff.

[Cheebatone]

I started this thread to poke fun at the senseless cack that gets talked on a few subjects over at TGP. A few other people had the same idea, hence the Dumble, Robben Ford threads et al. They were supposed to be a bit of a laugh, as was this. If you want to get involved in the acid-tounged stuff, wait for TGP to come back or, better still, go to Harmony Central.

BaM isn't free of sarcasm, but it is (nearly) always GOOD NATURED. If you feel you can't play nicely, please don't play at all.

Respectfully,

Charly

[dougb415]

[QUOTE=bassomatic]Sounds like my friend Matte.

One erudite hillbilly (if PA-tucky counts, as it should), one mofo with the beats.

A hillbilly with a beatbox makes him erudite? I had no idea.

[dougb415]

I started this thread to poke fun at the senseless cack that gets talked on a few subjects over at TGP.
Gotta use that sarcasm smiley then...;)

[Cheebatone]

Gotta use that sarcasm smiley then...;)
No. I needed to use the 'Joke' smiley...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Cheebatone/AAA.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Cheebatone/?)

...which I did. Page 1, post 1.

[dougb415]

Looks like me (and around 20 others) didn't get the joke. Oh well. I did try to give what I thought was a reasonable explanation as to why I thought rap was different from singers-songwriters who really don't play much guitar. It seemed like there was an actual discussion going on - at least for a while....

[Cheebatone]

Looks like me (and around 20 others) didn't get the joke.
Yes, even though I put the 'joke' smiley there and gave the thread a preposterous title, a number of people didn't realize it was supposed to be a vaguely humourous attempt at highlighting of the differences between BaM and TGP for people who weren't aware of just how friendly this place is.

:rolleyes:

[Jerrod]

Yes, even though I put the 'joke' smiley there and gave the thread a preposterous title, a number of people didn't realize it was supposed to be a vaguely humourous attempt at highlighting of the differences between BaM and TGP for people who weren't aware of just how friendly this place is.

:rolleyes:
Alas, the title is actually not preposterous to some, and they siezed your thread as an opportunity to pile on.

[Cheebatone]

Alas, indeed. :(

[dougb415]

Alas, the title is actually not preposterous to some, and they siezed your thread as an opportunity to pile on.
Interesting observation. From a different point of view - a poll asked a question, and discussion started. Who "piled on" what?

[Peter]

Gotta use that sarcasm smiley then...;)No, the winking smiley provokes me into a searing rage. It's been a long-standing campaign of mine to ban it.

Thanks for the laugh, Charly! I thought this was a funny thread from the beginning - and I didn't even notice the grinning icon by the thread title. In fact, this is humor at its best form.:cool:
There's no thumbs-up smiley, so just imagine it.

[dougb415]

No, the winking smiley provokes me into a searing rage. It's been a long-standing campaign of mine to ban it.
My campaign is to stamp out the use of 'u' and 'ur' :dude:

[aleclee]

Hip hop is only bad when it defies the standards of Rockism.

[Cheebatone]

Hip hop is only bad when it defies the standards of Rockism.
LOL! That's the funniest thing I've read in the Annex so far!