Need Modal clarification

[kfowler]

I've been been re-examining Modes lately to try to get a better grasp and application of them. I've understood their basic properties for a while but I'm trying to get a better understanding about their application. In that, I need some clarification.

Let's say your playing over the progression. C - Em - G and each chord has four measures. Now I know that I can play C Ionian over the C, E Phrygian over the Em, and G Mixolydian over the G. This part I get.

However, am I locked into just playing these modes over these chords. For instance for the Em, can I play E Dorian, E Aeolian or even E Locrian as well? For C, can I play C Lydian or Mixolydian? See what I'm getting at? This would go a long way in helping understand how to apply the modes.

Thanks for your help!

[Adam Spencer]

Right - this is how *I* understand it - I hope I'm not going to mislead you...

In your example of C, Em and G, the three modes you are mentioning all contain the same notes - playing them as modes just means that you change the "root note" as the chord progression occurs.

You are playing the I, IIIm and V chords of that key (in this case C). You have to analyse your chord progression to see what modes you can play (this assumes no key changes within the progression).

So, if you want to play E Dorian you must make the Em the IIm chord of the key, so the parent key would be D and you would need to play chords like D, Em, F#m, G, A, Bm.

I hope this is right - if it isn't someone better tell me as it makes my head hurt already...

Adam

[kfowler]

Hey Adam. Thanks for the response. I agree with everything you've said. However my big question is can you play other modes over one the chords in our progression.

Eg: Of the C - Em - G progression, lets take the Em. The chord structure has the notes E, G, and B. We know that we can play E Phrygian over this chord in our progression. But we also play E Dorian or even E Aeolian? Both of these scales are made up of the following notes:

E Dorian: E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D

E Aeolian: E-F#-G-A-B-C-D

I know that F# and C# are not part of the C Major scale. However, neither of these scales conflict with the Em chord make up of E,G, and B notes.

So in our progression of C-Em-G, can't we also play E Dorian or E Aeolian?:confused:

I'd pass out aspirin if I had any.

[Adam Spencer]

Hmmm... I see what you mean - I don't know the answer to that from a theory point of view. If I were in your position I'd fall back on "What does it sound like?" - if it sounds good, do it!

My prediction is that it will sound "wrong" somehow though.

There must be someone here who knows this stuff inside out... little help?

Adam

[kfowler]

I've been doing some more reading and found that yes you can play any of the minor modes over minor chords and any major modes over major chords. I believe it's called "modal interchange". In fact the site I read suggests it since you will really be able to hear the characteristics of the of modes. I'll try to post you the link when I get home. Excellent explanation.

[kfowler]

Adam,


Here's the link:

Modes (http://www.marcseal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9598)

[Adam Spencer]

Adam,

Here's the link:

Modes (http://www.marcseal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9598)

Thanks, that'll keep me busy for a few months!

Adam

[Tom Gross]

Hey Adam. Thanks for the response. I agree with everything you've said. However my big question is can you play other modes over one the chords in our progression.

Eg: Of the C - Em - G progression, lets take the Em. The chord structure has the notes E, G, and B. We know that we can play E Phrygian over this chord in our progression. But we also play E Dorian or even E Aeolian? Both of these scales are made up of the following notes:

E Dorian: E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D

E Aeolian: E-F#-G-A-B-C-D

I know that F# and C# are not part of the C Major scale. However, neither of these scales conflict with the Em chord make up of E,G, and B notes.

So in our progression of C-Em-G, can't we also play E Dorian or E Aeolian?:confused:

I'd pass out aspirin if I had any.
Yes, that is exactly right.
Modes are just scales to use in suggested approaches, and the method you describe is one excellent way to change things up. It really is a cool approach because often, folks who are first getting into modes end up sounding like they are just playing C Major over the whole thing. This approach helps get one out of that.

It is very common to play Lydian stuff over I chords.
Minor chords are often treated with any of the three minor modes, as well as with a lot of other scalar approaches (such as melodic minor).

In the progression you describe (C-Em-G), the G functions as a V chord, so can be treated like a V7 even though the chord is Major (which is common in pop, rock, and country songs). Thus you could use G mixolydian, or any D minor scale.

There is a lot more to it, but just remember, modes are not strict rules, they are particular sounds.
Frank Gambales video on Modes is excellent for getting the idea.

[lukeness]

Adam,


Here's the link:

Modes (http://www.marcseal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9598)sweet lesson!

[Robotechnology]

The chord progression you mentioned -- C Em G could be either of 2 diatonic keys:

C Major (I iii V)

or

G Major (IV vi I)

So looking at it that way, the 2 easiest on the ear scales to use would be both C Ionian throughout or G Ionian throughout. I don't really consider C Ionian, E Phrygian, & G Mixolydian different modes in the sense of each of them creating different tonal colors -- to me all three will sound the same as playing C Ionian, just that you're playing it in different positions.

Like someone else mentioned, you can interchange the major sounding (Ionian, Lydian, & Mixolydian) modes with any major chord. Likewise you can interchange any of the minor sounding (Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian) modes with any minor chord. Locrian works easiest with half-diminished and diminished chords and well as some altered minor chords.