Adjusting Intonation

[Matt_Man]

I've got a string of shows coming up next week, and I've gone over all my guitars. I mainly play my PRS on stage, and I found a little intonation problem. I've never adjusted the saddles on this before, and I don't want to mess up the trem at all. Could someone here be so kind as to tell me which way I need to adjust. I am running a little sharp on each string when I fret in the 12th fret.
Is it better if I adjust the saddles, or do I need to adjust the nut or trem? I don't want to mess this up, and figured this is the best place for info.
I used to have a thread from the old forum that said how to do it, and what to do, but I lost that somehow.
Thanks in advance!

[aleclee]

Assuming the trem is properly balanced for string tension (parallel to the top of the body), you shouldn't touch it. Also, you shouldn't have to do anything to the nut for intonation purposes.

If you're sharp at the 12th fret, "tighten" the saddle screw, moving the saddle away from the nut.

[Matt_Man]

That's what I needed thanks a bunch Alec!
This ironically is my only trem guitar as well... I've only had it for about 8 months so I'm not too fimilar with everything yet. :)

[Big Mike]

Sometimes 1 string can be a bit out of wack, and that could be the problem too, but it doesn't happen all that often.

Have a great string of shows!

[Stratmeister]

Or... since he said all 6 strings were a little sharp a tweak of the truss rod would probably be indicated, intonating all strings together.

[aleclee]

Or... since he said all 6 strings were a little sharp a tweak of the truss rod would probably be indicated, intonating all strings together.I really wouldn't suggest using the truss rod to influence intonation. IME it's hard enough to get the action/intonation to that comfy place that if it's good, I avoid perturbing that to the greatest extent possible.

Looking at your handle, maybe that's why folks find Fenders harder to play. ;)

[Adam]

Or... since he said all 6 strings were a little sharp a tweak of the truss rod would probably be indicated, intonating all strings together.Truss rod adjustments shouldn't really be used to adjust intonation (or string action, for that matter).

edit: Note to self- read whole thread before posting reply

[tmihm]

I recall a part of the PRS DVD where they did a setup on a PRS and explained everything. I think it was done on a trem model too...do you have a copy of the DVD?

Maybe they'll touch on your concerns.

And....good luck with your gigs!!!!!

Terry

[Matt_Man]

WOW, thanks for all the good luck guys. I'm in a smaller band, and we only have like 150-200 people at a show so we need all the luck we can get! We are in a small town though (50,000) so it's not like there are that many places to play, or that many people who come out to shows. The larger bands around here usually pull between 300-400 so we aren't doing all that bad here either. :)

As far as how she sounds now.... like brand new! I moved all the saddles back, changed strings because I couldn't get it to tune right, and problem was solved.
I only had to change the strings cuz I play in dropped C, and after moving the saddles back I didn't have any room to play with the tuning pegs.
But yeah, the saddle thing worked great. I just didn't know which way to move them.
I don't have a copy of the DVD, and they don't sell them where I got my PRS either even though they are a licensed dealer. I do keep reminding myself to get one someday soon. :)

[Stratmeister]

The truss rod is NOT an intonation adjustment. It controls the relief of the neck.
... which effects the string height, which effects the saddle height, which effects the trem height...

Ouch, what a blanket statement. Sounds like someone is afraid of their truss rod... :D

Come on guys, don't just down my throat so fast. Think about what he said... ALL 6 strings are a little sharp. Why isn't the truss tweaking a valid method to get his guitar in intonation? There may be some play in the relief, and one quick little tweek and off she goes...

Of course the truss rods primary purpose is to adjust the amount of bow in the neck. But it can effects intonation greatly, and if you understand what's happening, there is absolutly no reason to be afraid of tweaking a truss rod. Remember, all 6 strings are out of intonation, what else would cause all 6 to go out at the same time? Maybe removing a spring from the trem, moving the claw... what comes to your mind? I doubt if he did any of that. Are you thinking all 6 saddles moved in the same direction somehow? Or the whole bridge is leaning? C'mon, think outside the box... sorry, just had to work that in, everyone is so tired of it.

Of course individual saddles are adjustable as a primary means of intonation. But the truss rod adjustment also changes string length from nut to saddle, thereby changing intonation. And of course relief is the first thing that should be adjusted or else string height, intonation, PUP height, yada yada yada... are off. I do complete setups all the time. If I pick up a guitar and all 6 strings are sharp or flat comparing the fretted 12th note to the harmonic, I wouldn't hesitate to give the truss a very slight turn. But of course you're right, I would check relief for playing style, string gauge, etc... first.

Who know's if his relief is "correct"? If intontation is off do you simply move the saddles without checking relief? I doubt it, and I hope not anyway. OK OK, maybe I shouldn't suggest this to a person unfamiliar with how a fairly confusing trem configuration works, and how one piece can effect every other piece, and all that. But I feel it's a valid operation if the symptoms lead me in that direction. And remember, he said all 6 strings are a little sharp, that's what I first think of.

Now for that Fender comment, nah, that's not it. They're just mass produced loose fitting guitars! Just ask someone like Yngvie or Richie Blackmore or Clapton.. it's in the mojo! Or maybe the 7.25" radius, or the noisey SC pickups, or the side-to-side moving saddles, or....

Admit it, I've got a valid point! This is a place for discussion, don't get set in your ways. Can't we all just get along? ;)

[jas]

You play in dropped 'C' with a trem????

I'm guessing you keep that guitar in dropped 'C' all night. If you tune back up to pitch between songs, I want your valium prescription. :D

-John

[Big Mike]

Of course it's good to discuss these things! BTW, what's funny is that no-one (including me... and Matt!) thought to ask about the tuning... which was of course the real cause! :)
Doh! You can tell I haven't been working on guitars too much for a while ( I sometimes miss working in the music store). That was always the first question I asked. Big dummy I am!