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Vinni Smith
09-13-2005, 08:53 AM
For those of you that had any interest in the last post I started about playing "Out of the Pocket" by using a diminished scale over a IV chord, lets look a little bit about playing a "whole tone" scale over a V chord. I use this exquisite little trick to get attention of my listener and also to add a lot of color and humor at times to my work.

Once again, lets look at this from the Blues point of view. We are in the key of E. E=I A=IV and B7=V. I like using the Blues when I am learning something because they seem to be the basis of EVERYTHING that I play. They are very cool and hip and even though they are about as simple as could be, they still have the ability to be as complex as we care to make them, just by changing a few things here and there. They can become a maze that any smart rat could have a heck of a time finding his way out. I also like using the Blues as a tool of explaining a concept, expecially when I am not there to play it for you . It is very hard for me to explain a concept of sound and harmony over the internet.

Anyway, enough said on that. Let's look at the V7 chord. B-D#-F#-A. Not much there really. However, if we play a whole tone scale (meaning the scale goes up a whole tone, that is two frets, from a starting point to infinity). If we start on the V tonic, that would be B. The scale would be as such, B-C#-D#-F-G-A-B. This covers some very cool territory. I personally like to play this sequence of notes and in this order. Starting on the B on the 4th string, 7th fret with my index finger B-C#-D#-F-G-A-D#-F-G-A-B-C#-D#-F-G-A-B-and then down to G- and then down again to the tonic E. One little note about my technique here, I just play 2 notes on each string until I get to the 1st string and then go up every 2 frets on the 1st string all the way up to the B way high on the neck. A little thing I do at times to make it swing a bit more and make it a little more groovey is to put an open E string in between each whole tone once I have gotten to the 1st string whole tones. Am I making any sense at all here? I have such a hard time talking in person without messing up my words. I have even a harder time expressing this stuff in writing.

Let me know if you are interested in this type of stuff at all. I have lots of little ditties that I have collected over the last 30 years that I would like to share with others. Some of it is very cool stuff and some is just crap but it is all fun to have in your arsenal. Producers really like this stuff when you go into a studio because it not only gives him more to choose from but it also keeps him on his toes and that is a fun thing to do to those guys. Always keep them guessing and they will always call you back.

If anyone takes this to a different level and idea, please let me know. I could use a few more licks in my perverted little pea-brain. Heh Heh Heh

Cheers to you all. Do good things.

vinni

Jo
09-13-2005, 09:43 AM
Vinnie, thanks for posting this stuff. I love reading it (the technique section is my fav reading over on TGP).

BTW, we do have The Lesson Lab section here at the forum which is probably more appropriate.

Right... I'm off to ruminate on this for a while, see if I can make sense of it all.

Please keep 'em coming. :dude:

Vinni Smith
09-13-2005, 09:52 AM
Uh-Oh !

Am I posting this stuff in the wrong area?

Sorry..........

vinni

tone4days
09-13-2005, 10:13 AM
hey vinni - thanks for doing these bits ... i love exploring new ideas in 'bite sized' chunks as it fits my availability of time

i love that you mentioned in passing the notion of adding humor to music ... so many players take this stuff so seriously and i think incorportating musical phrases that seem playful and silly make for a much more pleasant experience for the listener and player .... its why i refer to joe walsh as the clown prince (or court jester) of rock guitar admiringly ...

as for the whole tone scale, i'm gonna have to noodle it before being able to comment directly .. i'll have to work out a fingering and see how to use it and resolve it musically ...

as for my V7 wanking, i like to play ascending and descending phrases based on a scale that moves in minor thirds .. i'll tab it out when i get home tonight if i have a chance..

keep em coming

cheers
t4d

Jo
09-13-2005, 10:14 AM
Uh-Oh !

Am I posting this stuff in the wrong area?

Sorry..........

vinniYeah, maybe we can get a mod to move it over. It'll stay nearer the top too, as that section never gets used much. I'd like to see that section get utilized more.

http://forums.birdsandmoons.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Marty Gilman
09-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Whole tone scale is cool against altered chords.(b5, #5, #11)

My favorite is a diminished scale a half step above a dominant 7th.

EX: E7 uses F diminshed scale. Try it.


Marty Gilman

Peter
09-13-2005, 11:34 AM
I've reported it to the mods so hopefully they will ban Vinni.

Seriously, though, I can't wait to try this one out!

Vinni Smith
09-13-2005, 12:42 PM
I've reported it to the mods so hopefully they will ban Vinni.

Seriously, though, I can't wait to try this one out!
Heh Heh Heh

I've been hoping to be banned soon because I hear there is a severance/compensation pay that follows it. Is that correct? LOL

vinni

Big Mike
09-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Yeah, if you get banned, I drive up and you surrender the Santana. :p


Moving to the appropriate section.

Vinni Smith
09-16-2005, 09:45 AM
Yeah, if you get banned, I drive up and you surrender the Santana. :p

Mike, all I can say is you better bring a lunch. Nancy will kick your arse!:eek: !

Heh Heh Heh

vinni

Jo
09-16-2005, 10:05 AM
Mike, all I can say is you better bring a lunch. Nancy will kick your arse!:eek: !

Heh Heh Heh

vinniNot if Mike brings along one of his big guns. She'll be screamin' and you'll be calling yourself Nancy. ;)

johnnyguitar
09-17-2005, 07:23 AM
Scales??? Don't they belong on a fish??? It's amazing what I don't know.......dominate 7th??? That's my wife!!!!!

Vinni Smith
09-21-2005, 11:28 AM
I don't have a temendous amount of knowledge of theory and harmony as some on this forum do. I did take some music classes in college so I do know how things are put together but I do not pay much attention to that aspect. So far it has not hindered my musical career, either studio or live work. As far as I know anyway. LOL. It probably has affected my writing abilities however.

What I do is this. I try to remember what works for me and what does not. I do not play anything that I don't like the sound of. For instance some of these modes, dorian or whatever. Most of them sound Egyptian to me and I just don't like or use them. I have added a lot of notes to the Pentatonic and that is my favorite position on the guitar. I can fit into most any pocket, Rock, Blues, Jazz or Country and I can hang with the best of them by doing this so I guess it just works for me. I have these "out of pocket" tricks that I like and use because they are fun. Again, I really don't give a rats snotball about how or why my notes fit, I just care that they do fit and sound good and are fun to play and that I can express what I am hearing in my head. That is all that is important to me as far as my playing goes.

Some would say I am throwing the baby out with the bath water for looking at the fretboard the way I do. Maybe so, but it works for me.

vinni

guitarman608
09-23-2005, 09:59 AM
thanks for the cool ideas, will help me get out of the rut ive been in lately.i like to learn little bits from time to time and then see if i can incorporate them into what i do...if idon't like it i just move on to the next so i guess i'm alot like vinni in that respect...i play what i think sounds good

Vinni Smith
09-23-2005, 10:27 AM
thanks for the cool ideas, will help me get out of the rut ive been in lately.i like to learn little bits from time to time and then see if i can incorporate them into what i do...if idon't like it i just move on to the next so i guess i'm alot like vinni in that respect...i play what i think sounds good
Sounds like we are on the same page.

vinni

Matte
06-01-2006, 02:50 PM
Some whole tone action (http://mattehenderson.com/JackoPL.swf)

Seegs
06-02-2006, 03:09 AM
This covers some very cool territory. I personally like to play this sequence of notes and in this order. Starting on the B on the 4th string, 7th fret with my index finger B-C#-D#-F-G-A-D#-F-G-A-B-C#-D#-F-G-A-B-and then down to G- and then down again to the tonic E.
vinni
Cool idea but do mean the 6th string 7th fret??

Chow,
Seegs

Vinni Smith
06-02-2006, 04:06 AM
Cool idea but do mean the 6th string 7th fret??

Chow,
SeegsOh, sorry. I mean the tonic B note on the 4th string, 9th fret.

Thanks....

Vinni Smith
06-02-2006, 04:12 AM
Some whole tone action (http://mattehenderson.com/JackoPL.swf)
Hey Matte, that's wild. Me Likey.

I think that is the first time I have heard you play. COOL! :cool:

vinni

Matte
06-02-2006, 07:33 AM
Hey Matte, that's wild. Me Likey.

I think that is the first time I have heard you play. COOL! :cool:

vinnithanks for listening.
last phrase (3rd) is all whole tone. (http://www.bogneramplification.com/Uber_MattH2.mp3)

cpokay
06-02-2006, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinni Smith
Hey Matte, that's wild. Me Likey.

I think that is the first time I have heard you play. COOL!

vinni
thanks for listening.
last phrase (3rd) is all whole tone.
[post edited by cpokay] . . . you didn't disappoint!!!! Thanks, dude.

Is that better? Snif, snif. I want to thank you, Mattedude. You made me reflect, seriously reflect on the wreckage I've left in my wake. Sorry man, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was being mean, and that was poor form. I apologize. I'll try to do better in the future, beeotch.

tradarama
06-18-2006, 08:31 AM
This section is quickly becoming my favorite. I've enjoyed your posts.