Messing with an EVH pattern

[Peter]

This van Halen box pattern is engineered for speed. Notice it's not a true "scale". Because the fingering pattern is repeated on the top 3 strings it's easy to play fast up or down, with alternate picking or hammer-ons & pull-offs.
It works best on the top 4 strings but I included the bottom two for completeness.

In A:

5 - 7 8 A B C
5 - 7 8 E F# G
5 - 7 8 C D Eb
5 6 7 G G# A
5 - 7 D E
5 - 7 8 A B C

The way EVH used it was for scale stuff, but I think it's interesting to pick patterns and intervals out of it as a slightly weird box pattern.

[cswolfe]

thanks for taking the time to put this down. I'm definitely going to noodle around with it later.:dude:

[Supasso]

Looks like Dorian-Blues scale.

[Vinni Smith]

Peter,

This is the blues box that I base all of my playing around, I have added and subtracted a few notes here and there but this is the nucleus of my style. I move it around of course and put it into different positions.

I just like this sound and position and have worked a lifetime adding to it. Kind of like a DiGiorno pizza. You just add what you want and then let it cook!

vinni

[Peter]

Looks like Dorian-Blues scale.
Well, if you line up all the notes in order you get:
A B C D Eb E F# G G#
Is that Dorian-Blues? I'm not sure what everything is called.

What is looks like to me is two scales overlaid.
scale 1: A B C D Eb F# G#
scale 2: A B C D E F# G

Scale 2 is A dorian. Scale 1 would be, I dunno, A locrian melodic. I think there's such a thing.

Vinni: look at the 2nd and 4th strings. With your normal blues box pattern, would you do that? (in other words play G-G# on 2nd, F#-G on 4th).
That's what gives this one the off-kilter feel.
Maybe it's commonplace, and I never got the memo. :p

[Vinni Smith]

Yeah, this is why I use this configuration so often. I like the 6th which of course is the F#. That is quite nice popped in at the right time. The maj-7 is nice as well. I also add a lot of other notes like the C#, Bb, B, F, and even the D# (flatted 5th) at times especially when playing "Big Band type Swing Blues. Hey, even a raised tonic if I feel like a nut! Of course, different directions warrant different notes and combinations.

I guess it is just the way you have these notes set up that I like. It is just set up for a guitar voicing. The character of the guitar. I play sax and piano as well and this set up just does not do it for me on those instruments.

If we think about it, there are only 12 different notes in our culture. (Other cultures like China have more). Now 7 of these notes are all in the major scale so that only leaves 5 (off) tones and some of them are not really off much.

I don't really think about it like this. I play what I hear in my noggin' and that's it, really. You know who thinks a lot like this? Larry Carlton. I have an interview where he states that he does not even know the different scales like Dorian, etc. Now, I am sure he is much more versed in what he is playing than I am but it just blew me away to hear him say that about scales/modes. I thought I was the only one on this planet that did not disect the fretboard like that. I guess my brain just doesn't work that way.

Hey, it's all good.

vinni

[DanHund]

...I don't really think about it like this. I play what I hear in my noggin' and that's it, really. You know who thinks a lot like this? Larry Carlton. I have an interview where he states that he does not even know the different scales like Dorian, etc. Now, I am sure he is much more versed in what he is playing than I am but it just blew me away to hear him say that about scales/modes. I thought I was the only one on this planet that did not disect the fretboard like that. I guess my brain just doesn't work that way.

Hey, it's all good.

vinni
Not that I am even close to the same league :) , but I think the same way. I think in terms of patterns, not scales. Different patterns for different songs. But, don't ask me what notes fit into that pattern, or what scale it is.

Just a lack of education, pure and simple. I just never found the time, or the need, to learn the theories and names behind what works and what doesn't.

[Vinni Smith]

Yeah Dan, that is a good way to put it, Patterns. But don't call yourself uneducated because we have studied patterns just like others have studied modes. That is EXACTLY the way I approach a solo, thinking of what "patterns" will fit. I know in my head what the pattern will sound like before I play it. It must come from being a very visual type person. I am the same way in learning to build something. If you give me instructions I am lost but all I need to do is see it done once and I can then do it, usually.

One time I told myself that I was going to learn all the different modes. I actually sat down and drew out what each pattern looked like. Every time I practiced I went thru all of the modes to get them in my ears and hands. I still have that illustration saved somewhere on my computer. I gave up on it however because I really did not find any need to use the different modes because I did not like the sound of many of them. Guess that is where I went wrong.........

I'm just a pattern type of guy. That's just the way I am wired.

vinni

[The_Dirtbag]

In A:

5 - 7 8 A B C
5 - 7 8 E F# G
5 - 7 8 C D Eb
5 6 7 G G# A
5 - 7 D E
5 - 7 8 A B C


Very cool. I will have to try this when I get home tonight. My old eyes had a hard time reading this at first. Is this correct?

5 - 7 8 A B C
5 - 7 8 E F# G
5 - 7 8 C D Eb
5 6 7 - G G# A
5 - 7 - D E
5 - 7 8 A B C

[Peter]

That is correct.

[redmax61]

Without having a guitar in my hand to check this out, is it by chance the same pattern he uses for that cool arpegiated(sp?) solo he does in "I'm on Fire"?

[fishhead785]

hey guys this is my first post here.......maybe i can help you out with this....it is a combitnation of an A aeolian mode..or natural minor and also a G mixolydian mode.........the A# and C# would just be cromatic passing tones that are not in the key of Am at all...but as long as you dont begin or end up on them that is fine.....hope this helps


if you play the pattern starting with a tap at the 12th fret starting on the high E than pull off to the 8 7 5 pattern and repeat all the way to the low E i think you should hear a little eddie there......ala hot for teacher

Ron
www.stephenross.com (http://www.stephenross.com)

[guitarman608]

Peter,

This is the blues box that I base all of my playing around, I have added and subtracted a few notes here and there but this is the nucleus of my style. I move it around of course and put it into different positions.

I just like this sound and position and have worked a lifetime adding to it. Kind of like a DiGiorno pizza. You just add what you want and then let it cook!

vinnireally vinni...you play some cool stuff (heard it on myspace) guess i'll have to noodle around with this..i've been in a rut lately playing wise. any other suggestions for blues rock/ rock n roll style of playing out side the norm?
looking for new ways to make my prs sing(along with my new v-picks)
rob v