Monday, June 27

[jas]

Ok, I went to a fern-bar restaurant with two of my sisters and had a cup of French onion soup (aka "Freedom onion soup") and salad bar. John Hiatt has a great line: "I used to drink a lot in those days, yeah that's the way the wind blows - nowadays the only bar I see has lettuce and tomatoes".

I was thinking about who the most "interesting" figure of the 20th century might be. That's my topic.

I would reject obvious choices like John Reardon or Adolph Hitler. Woodrow Wilson and Winston Churchill, I could prattle on about for a while.

But my choice is Lee Harvey Oswald. He's got to be the biggest enigma of our times. Worked for the CIA, had security clearance at the U2 spy plane base in Japan but left to live in Russia shortly before Gary Powers was shot down. Lived a life of luxury in Minsk as a disaffected American defector. Changed his mind and moved to New Orleans with not a lifted eyebrow from immigration nor the CIA nor the FBI who had a large file on him. Ran his pro-Castro operation out of the same building as notorious rightwinger anti-Castro Guy Bannister. Then he moved to Dallas. It gets weirder and weirder the deeper you dig.

Ok, I'm done.

-John

[JGraham]

Fern bar? Is that an official designation? Or yours?

I had a massive pulled pork BBQ sandwich with hot sauce and vinegar. Baked beans and coleslaw on the side. Willards Pit BBQ.

Oswald... didn't know all that. Interesting.

I'm gonna go with Dr. Evil. Sharks with fricken' laser beams... How can you top that?

[jas]

"Fern bar" is a term of derision for a place that adds $5.00 to a burger because they have potted plants.

That BBQ sounds delicious, depending on the type of hot sauce used and the quantity thereof.

I may have to check my sources about "worked for the CIA". That may not be strictly true or as known in some quarters, "false". The rest is verified and the tip of the iceberg. His mother was weirder than Lee! His wife, Marina, is also spooky and he had some interesting friends in Dallas including an FBI higher-up and a millionaire defector from Russia. And he got shot by Jack Ruby who's a whole 'nother story.

-John

[johnreardon]

Bacon in toasted bread, made by my better half

Difficult to come up with answers to this topic as 'interesting' can be different to where you live.

Conspiracy theories perhaps make Oswald more interesting than he really was. We have our newspapers digging into the death of Diana, at the moment, and the daily articles coming out certainly seem convincing.

However, for me the most interesting person I would have liked to meet was Siegfred Sassoon. How can someone go through the horrors of war, like he did, and still write such emotive text in his diaries.

'I wish I could believe that Ancient War History justifies the indefinite prolongation of this war. The Jingos define it as 'an enormous quarrel between incompatible spirits and destinies, in which one or the other must succumb'. But the men who write these manifestos do not truly know what useless suffering the war inflicts...And the Army is dumb. The Army goes on with its bitter tasks. The ruling classes do all the talking. And their words convince no one but the crowds who are their dupes. The soldiers who return home seem stunned by the things they have endured...If only they would speak out and throw their medals in the faces of their masters; and ask their women why it thrills them to know that they, the dauntless warriors, have shed the blood of Germans.'

Please note, I am not pleading the rights or wrongs of war, just quoting from a diary that someone kept during his service life.

[jas]

I've read a lot of his poetry, JR! I keep a volume in my office at work. As you may know, I am obsessed with all things WWI.

There was a trilogy of WWI books written by Pat Barker several years ago - they took place in the mental home where Sassoon and Owen and the other shell shocked victims went. I can't remember the name of the place nor the doctor. The books were each rectangular - that I remember.

-John

P.S. The stuff about Oswald is not conspiracy theory. They're what a friend of mine calls "true facts".

[johnreardon]

I've read a lot of his poetry, JR! I keep a volume in my office at work. As you may know, I am obsessed with all things WWI.

There was a trilogy of WWI books written by Pat Barker several years ago - they took place in the mental home where Sassoon and Owen and the other shell shocked victims went. I can't remember the name of the place nor the doctor. The books were each rectangular - that I remember.

-John

P.S. The stuff about Oswald is not conspiracy theory. They're what a friend of mine calls "true facts".
Haven't read them yet, must seek them out

http://www.mtmercy.edu/classes/barkerwwi.htm

Doctor was William Rivers?

[jas]

Yep. Craiglockhart. I think it was in Scotland or Swahililand or somesuch.

I read all three of them - very scary, grim, ugly. Ugh.

The best WWI fiction I've ever read, I think, is "Birdsong" by some young Brit.

-John

[johnreardon]

Yep. Craiglockhart. I think it was in Scotland or Swahililand or somesuch.

I read all three of them - very scary, grim, ugly. Ugh.

The best WWI fiction I've ever read, I think, is "Birdsong" by some young Brit.

-John
Sebastian Faulks best known for Charlotte Gray, which I've read. Bit boring.

[kingsleyd]

Shared Thai food with my GF today: beef laarb with sticky rice; drunken noodles.

RE: topic o'the day: Gurdjieff comes to mind for me. Or maybe Miles Davis.

[jas]

I think posters should be forced to explain their choices a bit. At least I'm man enough to admit that I'd never heard of Gurdjieff before (he is interesting, Kingsley!).

I get to make the rules because I started the thread.

-John

[jas]

Sebastian Faulks best known for Charlotte Gray, which I've read. Bit boring.



Charlotte Gray blew chunks.

Sebastian's the one! Unfortunately with all these hot young authors, they write one great book, then their crappy first books come out, then they try to duplicate their success with "Charlotte Gray".

A much better Charlotte book was "I am Charlotte Simmons" by Tom Wolfe. Another would be a tourist's guide to Charlotte, North Carolina.

-John

[kingsleyd]

I think posters should be forced to explain their choices a bit. At least I'm man enough to admit that I'd never heard of Gurdjieff before (he is interesting, Kingsley!).

I get to make the rules because I started the thread.

-JohnFair enough...
Gurdjieff created/led a school of philosophy, religion, psychology, and science derived from some pretty esoteric non-Western thinkers/doers. The mix was radical and very strange, yet it anticipated many of the things that are now all the rage in those fields. (some folks are finding that -- whoa -- they are all different ways of looking at the same thing... check out the film "what the bleep do we know?") He started an actual school that experienced mixed success; ultimately it failed as an ongoing institution, although Gurdjieffian groups that claim to further the "Work" persist. (Robert Fripp spent time in one after disbanding his somewhat famous rock band in 1974)

As a personality, G. was intense and mostly dislikable, prone to making his associates' lives miserable under the guise of promoting self-understanding and growth.


G. had "systems" for everything, and ways of teaching that were rather different than what we experience in the West. While one particularly adept and well-educated associate (P.D. Ouspensky) did his best to elucidate them for the rest of us, for the most part it seems that his ideas have been far more often misunderstood than understood.

As for Mr. Davis, I shouldn't think he needs a lot of comment. I just find his life and the music he created fascinating in its breadth and in its multitude of self-contradictions.

[bleujazz3]

I'd have to say some of the early blues and jazz players...Robert Johnson, Charlie Christian, who were the early definers of modern music. I'm sure you could name many more....

I'd like to find out how they discovered their technique and translated that into their creative forces; what was it that made them so much of a stand-out in modern times while being virtually non-persona when they lived?

Was it because the music they wrote and recorded(?) was cutting edge for the era in which they lived, of was it because they became popular as a result of their efforts as modern culture sees it?

Thought provoking, at least. The alternative to this is that composers in the 17th and 18th centuries were never considered popular until after they had passed. Heck of a legacy, and no way to make a living.....

[Donk70]

Chicken Cesar Salad and water

I don't find one famous person more interesting than the other. Let me put it this way: We are "run" by the media and the media will report on what they want to report on. Thus, if they want to draw their "readers" in with "news" about certain "news worthy" individuals and make them celebrities, they will.

Don't get me wrong, I read all of this and follow the news like the next person, I just take everything with a grain of salt.

[darial]

I had a burger. Not too bad.

I'd probably go with Gen. McArthur, at least as the person I'd be most interested in talking to. A strange mix of military briliance and seemingly unnecissary recklessness (the invasion of the Phillipines was a hair from being a disaster), and ultimatly politically hamstrung in Korea for reasons that are somewhat less than clear but that ushered in the modern era of the US intentionally losing wars. He was also a very eloquent but somewhat maniacal speaker and writer.

[Peter]

Steak sandwich. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
The question is too hard for me to answer if I consider all fields, so I'll stick to culture and say John Cage. He was a composer, artist, and mycologist who gave us the prepared piano (sticking various things on/in between the strings to create different tones and textures), the (in)famous 4:33 piece consisting of silence, and he was one of the foremost developers of chance music. Musically he influenced everything from minimalism to the Velvet Underground, and in other areas of art worked with painter Jasper Johns and choreographer/dancer Merce Cunningham.

[irwcustom]

6 tuna Mayo sarnies.


I find lots of different people interesting for different reasons, but I'm always one not to take stuff on face value. So it's not a cop out, but I'm agreeing with DonK - the media is a double edged sword - it makes or breaks a person and they do so as they see fit seemingly.

Georges song 'The Devils Radio' sums that up for me. I guess unless you know them personally, all you can do is read between the lines and try to figure their motives and where their heart is.

[jas]

Oh - here's a vote for Rasputin! (It's my thread, I can vote twice). I assume he needs no introduction.

Darren - Robyn Hitchcock has a cool song called "Devil's Radio" too. He should've sued George while he had the chance. And Warren Zevon wrote the great song "Mohammed's Radio" but I guess that's different. And then there's "Radio Radio". Shut up, John.

-John