New Valves for my HotRod DeVille?

[San]

Hey amp lovers...

I've had my HRD for a fair while now and I'm pretty happy with it but I'd like to experiment with the valves to see if I can improve the tone a little. By 'improved' tone I mean a slightly more complex, deeper clean sound. I'm pretty happy (or perhaps just less fussy??) with the distorted tones. Better tone at lower volumes would also be a plus.

Anyone have any suggestions of valves to use?

Thanks all,

San.

[Phil Bennett]

Hey San, I'm no expert, and John P will probably be the best to answer this, but I've read that Yellow jackets and Groove Tubes are supposed to be very good.

I understand they knock to power output down, whilst still maintaining the tone.

As I say I'm no expert.

Regards

[Chiba]

A cheap experiment is to try some different preamp tubes - 12AY7, AU7, AT7, that kind of thing. I can't remember the mix I ran in my former HRD, but I got some great clean tones after mixing things around a bit.

By the end I think the only one I left at 12AX7 was the inverter/driver thingie one.

--chiba

[San]

Thanks guys!

I've been considering the YJ's for a while and I'm pretty sure I'll give 'em a try when I can find a reasonably priced set (just like the ones I sold to Gary Natrass - doh!).

Chiba - Pre amp tubes..hmmm nice idea...got me thinking now dude.

San.

[johnreardon]

San


try Watford Valves, they have a large collection of valves for Fender amps, including some special offers. I recently changed the valves in my Blues Junior for their Harma ones, and it does sound sweeter.


http://www.watfordvalves.com/mainindex.htm

Incidentally, nice to hear someone call them valves, instead of what the Americans call them. To me a tube is what we used to put inside car tyres!!

[BBLong]

San,
I have a Blues Deville, the 2 channel predecessor of the HotRod Deville. It is the 4x10 model.

I have some killer tones coming out of that amp. I have not messed with the valve. I bought it used, and it had recently been re"valved" and rebiased (I had that checked anyway), using all Groove Tubes. I will see what is in each slot and let you know. I get killer deep clean, and nice dirty. I use a pedal into the clean channel for the JCM 800 dirt.

Also, if you try Yellow Jackets with EL34's, let me know how it works out. I like Fender Clean, Marshall JCM 800 dirty, and it would be nice to know if it works for someone else.

Also, contact by email a guy named Bob at Eurotubes.com. Let him know what tones you are looking for and the music you play and he will email you with valves you should try in each slot of your amp. I have not bought from him, but I kept his suggestions for my Deville and will try his suggestions when I revalve my amp.

By the way, I call them tubes, mainly b/c valves are what we put on refinery pipelines to control the flow of crude oil during processing, as well as faucets, and other pipelines. In the spirit of going along with others, I chose to use the word valve b/c it is more familiar to you.

I hope that came across as funny, the line about pipelines, etc. Was not trying to be a smartalec.

Bob.

[San]

Hey Bob, thanks for the advice and yes - you did make me laugh!

San.

[Pointbreakd]

Hey San,


Did you try the YJs? How did it work out?

[San]

Hey PBK...

Yes, I did try the YJs and for the moment the jury is still out. I really liked the cleans, made then nice and squashy and gave them a touch of Vox-like jangle but they didn't really sound that great distorted. The distorted sound was again very Vox-like unsurprisingly but wasn't really my bag. Since I tried them I've moved to getting almost all my dirty tones from pedals so my plan is to try them again this weekend and see how I get on..

I'll keep you posted!!

San.

[Pointbreakd]

John,

Mine actually didn't come with the stock JJs so I went out and got a pair of GTEL84s. $20 for the pair...I think it sounds really good in my Deville 410. Am I missing something by not having nicer tubes?

[Pointbreakd]

I actually meant Groove Tube EL84...is that the same thing?

[Taller]

Your GT 84s may very well be JJ/Teslas, just re-labeled. Check out the Groove Tubes web site (http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes_list.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=108) - they carry a few different brands of re-labeled 84s.

[Pointbreakd]

Ah gotcha.


Honestly I like the sound. It def distorts quicker though, at lower volumes, but this was expected.

[Pointbreakd]

Actually...after playing for an hour...I dont like the YJS....its like they break up too much.. I can't get a good clean tone

[Wakarusa Amp]

A lot depends on your budget.

For big, complex, strong clean out of a HRD try a set of JAN Philips 7581A outputs. Second (and more reasonably priced) choice would be a pair of the new Svetlana (Reflektor production) 6L6GC. They won't bring the power down like the YJs, but I think you'll like 'em a LOT more than the Sov 5881s that came in the amp. Make sure to get them biased correctly.

Another low power alternative to the YJ is the Smicz TAD. Uses a different tube that is claimed to sound more like a 6L6 type.

Try a 5751 in the phase inverter (as opposed to the 12AT7 suggested earlier). Sovtek makes a decent one, NOS GEs are nice too.

In the preamp slot in addition to the NOS RCA suggested (a fine sounding tube) NOS Beijing production "Silver Specials" are tough to beat for clean. There is a grey plate version that comes close and goes for half the price.

The GT Mullard copy is manufactured by Shuguang in China. Expensive, but probably worth trying. Lots of reviews of this tube in the forums/newsgroups.

Just my suggestions. As usual, you really ought to just sample as much stuff as you can get your hands on -- we can't listen with your ears, eh?

[BBLong]

A couple of things I learned about my Blues Deville, the 2 gain-stage precursor to the HR Deville. I have a 410 Blues Deville. I recently went through several tubes, power and preamp, and found a really nice combination, though not what I expected or read from this or other pages.

I originally bought some GT 6L6GE's adn put them in. The sound was really nice and in your face with clean or dirty, but seemed to run "hot" and I mean smelled like they were burning. I took to a local amp guru (nationally known and has done the amps of many famous people) and he went to bias it. Turns out the amp does not have a bias adjustment, so you gotta buy tubes in the rating of about 4-5 or else it will idle hot. He impressed upon me to use some NOS 5881's he had. I popped them in and compared those to many, many other tubes he let me pop in and out. I could not believe as a 6L6 and EL84 fan that the 5881's would sound better, but they did. They cost me $72, but I bought the pair and have been in love with the amp all over again. Others have commented that they did not know that it was such a nice sounding amp on the clean or dirty channel.

Then I went through all my preamp tubes in all the positions. I put in GTECC83's, NOS Sylvania 12ax7's and a NOS GE12at7, some NOS mullard 12ax7's, and tried some new GT12ax7c's. I thought NOS would sound much better b/c they do in my old 60's and 70's fender amps. Nope, the new GT12ax7c's sounded the best. I popped 3 in, and with the NOS 5881's, the amp sounds better than ever. I go back and forth between it and my new-to-me Rivera Rake. I can't believe how good these two amps sound.

Try to find some New Old Stock (NOS) 5881's and try them in the Deville and see if you like them. I did. It sounds better than my old fenders, now.

Hope this helps,
Bob

[brianf]

My one suggestion is to put in 12AT7's in all pre amp positions.

You have probably found that the gain knob works up to about 4 or 5 and is at its max at that point. A complaint of many Deville users.

With the 12AT7's your will get a nice even increase in gain from 1 to 12.

Try it out, preamp tubes a inexpensive. Fun to try different brands too. I like EH.

brianf