Eric johnsons tone.

[chimaera1982]

Humm am learning his stuff, n i would like to know how to get his tone well approximately. I have a PRS SAS, played thru a Rivera 30-112. Well for me roughly is using the coil tapped with the toggle in the middle position. N using the fender channel on the rivera with treble ard 8 n middle aroung 5 bass 5. Any other views on this? I usually use a route 66 overdrive to drive the amp. Any other way to roughly get the tone/sound?

[JGraham]

I believe a DOD Metal Zone with an Eveready 9volt that has been used exactly 2.45 hours is key. Or something like that...

[chimaera1982]

??? ok tts highly interesting. Well i dont think ill be getting the metal zone, am not a metalhead anyways,.. but i can try ask my friend, who knows.

[darial]

He's pulling your leg.

The guy doesn't have just one tone - so there's a real question as to what you're looking for. However, some key elements of his "standard" stage rig are : a strat-type guitar, some sort of tube overdrive (I hear he's using tonebone classics but I'm not sure), a fulltone '69 fuzz, an echoplex, and an A/B split between a fender and a marshall style amp.

On the technique side, he has a very soft attack - I believe he calls it "pick masking" but at any rate that's a key element.

[kingsleyd]

On the technique side, he has a very soft attack - I believe he calls it "pick masking" but at any rate that's a key element.
Darial's right. Part of it is very good control of the right hand, and part of it is the pick. EJ uses Dunlop Jazz III picks, the red ones. And of course (he is Eric Johnson, after all) he uses the old ones that they don't make any more. EJ has insisted to me that both the shape and the plastic formula changed. Jimmy Dunlop admits that the shape changed (lost the original mold in a fire) but NOT the formula.

Picky, picky.

As for the amps:

For rhythm: a pair of Fenders, usually with JBL speakers, with a TC Chorus and lots of delay, set very bright.

For "dirty" rhythm: a Marshall (or an EJ signature amp made by Fulton Webb) with a carefully selected old Fuzz Face (EJ finds about 1 in 50 to be acceptable) for that Hendrix tone. On "Venus Isle" he was using some other fuzzes, too, notably a Fulltone '69 as mentioned above and a Prescription Experience.

For lead: a Marshall Plexi ('67 or '68); with the Strat, he uses some sort of overdrive in front. Over the years, he's used a Tube Screamer, a Tube Driver (BK Butler), and (very recently) a Tonebone. With the 335, he doesn't turn the overdrive on, at least that's what he's insisted to me. He used to run an Echoplex in front of the lead Marshall, but these days he goes dry and runs the mic'd output through an onstage mini-PA with echo & reverb.

That's a lot of gear to buy, store, and schlep around. I'm not sure there really is a good approximation, although I have a couple of Deluxe Reverbs (one of which was purchased from Mr. Johnson) and a Fulldrive II. The FDII has two levels of overdrive and actually does a fair job of mimicking EJ's dirty rhythm and lead tones through the Fenders (don't forget to turn off the chorus!) at least for "guitar room" playing. Onstage is another matter, but I don't often try to do EJ onstage so that's not really an issue for me.

[kingsleyd]

One other key element -- the bridge pickup on his Strat is wired to the second tone control. He plays with the tone on the neck pickup on or near 10, but on the bridge pickup he rolls it back a fair bit, sometimes to 3 or 4.

[chimaera1982]

Woaah thats really a LOT of expensive gear man. The only thing affordable to me are the Dunlop Jazz III and thats the new ones, hahahaha. Oh well, Ill just make do with what i have and do a very rough approximation. My Rivera can roughly do the marshall and fender thing reasonably well, so i will just tweak and hope for the best. The route 66 is TS9 based so thats another plus.Thanks a lot guys for the info, really appreciate it.

[kingsleyd]

Woaah thats really a LOT of expensive gear man.
No kidding! The funny thing is, once I listened to EJ play through an old Fender Harvard amp in his dressing room, no effects or anything, and he still sounded just like EJ. Maybe not quite as violin-ish as with the Marshall, but amazingly close. An awfully large percentage of his tone really is in his hands.

[Jo]

A cheap alternative for getting close to EJ's sound is to get something like the Line 6 GuitarPort (or POD) then you can download his tone patches. On the original version of the Guitar Port you could download for instance his Cliff's of Dover tone and it sounded pretty darn good (now if only I could get play that song).

[darial]

Darial's right. Part of it is very good control of the right hand, and part of it is the pick. EJ uses Dunlop Jazz III picks, the red ones. And of course (he is Eric Johnson, after all) he uses the old ones that they don't make any more. EJ has insisted to me that both the shape and the plastic formula changed. Jimmy Dunlop admits that the shape changed (lost the original mold in a fire) but NOT the formula.

That's really interesting. I use the Jazz III as well, and I noticed there were two different "flavors" running around. One of them IS preferable, and I'm not overly picky by nature. However, I'm not sure if I prefer the same or oposite one as EJ since I don't know which is new and which is old :D

[kingsleyd]

Hey, darial, EJ just played in Boulder. Did you catch the show?

As for the Jazz III picks, it's pretty difficult to find the old ones nowadays. It's easy to tell the difference, though -- just play and listen -- the ones that sound like EJ are the old ones! [laugh]

No, seriously, on the old ones, "Jim Dunlop" is in block letters. On the new ones, it's in script. The old ones also have more of a flat, matte finish, whereas the new ones are shinier.

Apparently Eric has a pretty sizable cache of old ones. A few years back, he said he would send me some. I'm still waiting... maybe when he finally releases the new CD...

BTW, there ARE two flavors, but they are black (harder material) and red (what EJ uses). Also there are 3 different shapes of each flavor: I (most rounded), II (in the middle), and III (sharper). The rounder the point, the mellower the picking attack. But even the IIIs have nowhere near the "clack" that a traditional shape pick has.

[Jo]

Apparently Eric has a pretty sizable cache of old ones. A few years back, he said he would send me some. I'm still waiting... maybe when he finally releases the new CD...When EJ was playing here at the Rams Head last year, after the show I was talking to his tech guy and I asked him if he had any picks (actually I offered to trade him one of my personal custom pics for one of Erics :) ), but he said that Eric's were special and that he couldn't afford to lose/give any away. I thought that was kinda strange at the time. Eric really is anal about some things, but his perfection shows some great results.

At the show (it was his acoustic show) we were in the front row, so close I'm sure his spit hit me a couple times, he would spend ages tuning the guitar for each song.

Do you know if he tunes his guitar for the key each song is sung in? I sometimes tune to chords myself especially on acoustic, I was wondering if he perhaps did something similar.

I got to meet him after the show and chat for a minute or so. He was a really, really nice guy. He was the nicest of the 'celebrity's' that I've ever met.

Here's a pic from the show.
I think that's my head at the extreme right. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/kitepower/Eric%20Johnson/EricJohnsonIMG_0141sml.jpg

[irwcustom]

Thanks for posting the pic Jo!! Cool:cool: Seems like he's always used that pickup for live acoustic then ... and looks like probably a mix with the piezo.


It's rediculous that the JD Jazz III is different - i've always used them before I even knew about Eric, but never noticed a change in shape. A duplicate mould for something like that providing you have an origonal mould or even a drawing, would be a sinch. I'm sure I read that he files the things to the shape he requires, but as stock, they are good enough for me. Jazz II's are mellower for me ..but it depends how you play and your attack to each string. I still use them on acoustic (Jazz III's) but for chords, they can rob the tone a bit for me ..depending on what you are after naturally.

I believe that contained in some CD's, Eric pics were given away apparently - well one's with his name on that's all. If it were all down to a pick though, wouldn't life be easy ..and cheap!

He is a great guy and bought a 100W 67 plexi off my friend (the one he was sitting on on the front of GTR player with the white cover - tho I think he mainly uses 50 Watters now.

Didn't know about the guitar port down loads either - not sure about totally nailing his tone, but rather capturing the essense is a good thing.

The closest I have come is a Roland GP100 on Soldano superlead setting with a custom 24 through a Boogie MkIII without using the pre-amp section - bypassing it completely. Backing the volume control off to 8 ..huge difference in tone and played on bridge pickup - for 'cliffs' which I still can't get, though I love the phrasing.

Yer, the new CD should be in the pipeline - fingers crossed. I read a report from a guitar mag that said also Kingsleyd, that Eric sounds like Eric no matter what he plays through...and they heard him through a small Deluxe I think ..or something similar.

[darial]

Hey, darial, EJ just played in Boulder. Did you catch the show?Sadly, no. I had a prior engagement.
No, seriously, on the old ones, "Jim Dunlop" is in block letters. On the new ones, it's in script. The old ones also have more of a flat, matte finish, whereas the new ones are shinier.
well, I can at least share pick prefrence with EJ then - the old ones were better for me, and it's not subtle IMO.

[Jo]

Thanks for posting the pic Jo!! Cool:cool: Seems like he's always used that pickup for live acoustic then ... and looks like probably a mix with the piezo.That was the shrunk down version of the photo. To see the full sized blow up check here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/kitepower/Eric%20Johnson/EricJohnsonIMG_0141.jpg). Rog took this pic when Kevin, Julian and him came over last year. It was a great show.

[kingsleyd]

well, I can at least share pick prefrence with EJ then - the old ones were better for me, and it's not subtle IMO.I totally agree -- I noticed the difference right away, well before I ever talked to Eric about it. My old IIIs are all gone now, although I still have some of the old Is and IIs. I begged and pleaded with Jimmy Dunlop at the NAMM show once to find some old ones and redo that mold, but to no avail. He thought we were crazy, and that the difference was too tiny to be noticeable.

A friend of mine from Michigan (the guy who builds GDS amps) once made some of the old shape IIIs in *aluminum*. He gave about half a dozen to me, and I shared half of those with Eric. No idea if EJ ever used them. I've lost all 3 of mine.

BTW, IRWCustom, the reason Eric files them is that unused ones tend to have some leftover flashing around the edges. I remember reading that too, and thinking it wasn't such a big deal because I'd always done the same thing.

[irwcustom]

Seems like the new Album is called Bloom, it's finished .. and that's NOT the acoustic album. The recording started in December for that.


The Jazz III's do have a certain amount of flashing your right K ..again easilly remidied - I could sort it no problem! Probably multi cavity tooling is used so they bash 'em out (most likely in some distant climbs). They've got to be the same material, so it's probably mould temperature that's giving a poor surface finish and also intermittent flashing can be a problem when moulding in those circumstances and difficult to control also when your making lots at a time. Other factors are possible. Sort it out Jim !

So apart from the ident, surface finish and flashing, what's the difference?

Edit: have I been 'had'? ...block logo ..changed to the later script ones ...sounds like a Marshall to me:o :)

[ikkyu2]

The new Jazz IIIs are crap. I still have one of the old ones kicking around, and I like it much better. But I recently switched up to the new Jazz III XL and that's some pretty good stuff. The V is a little straighter near the tip, like the old ones.

I have always been embarrassed about caring so much about the pick, but now that I hear EJ feels the same way I feel this weird sense of vindication.

[kingsleyd]

The new Jazz IIIs are crap. I still have one of the old ones kicking around, and I like it much better. But I recently switched up to the new Jazz III XL and that's some pretty good stuff. The V is a little straighter near the tip, like the old ones.

I have always been embarrassed about caring so much about the pick, but now that I hear EJ feels the same way I feel this weird sense of vindication.
Huh... maybe Jimmy D finally listened to all of us whiners. I'll have to go find some of those III XLs!

Don't be embarrassed. Good tone is all about sweating the small stuff.

[irwcustom]

Huh... maybe Jimmy D finally listened to all of us whiners. I'll have to go find some of those III XLs!

Don't be embarrassed. Good tone is all about sweating the small stuff.
I like that ...good tone is about sweating on the small stuff. You can spend a fortune on gear - eg buying into somebodies notion of low mass tuners etc, but the point at which you are closely connected to the string ..the pick gets or can get overlooked.

Never knew about the XL's ..I'll have to look them out too. Same thickness?:confused: